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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Stoshowicz" data-source="post: 648681" data-attributes="member: 31397">I would go with juvenal or first winter , for the brown one since the bill is still mostly dark , and third winter  Herring gull for the light one because of the white spot on the primaries coming in with still some brown on the upper wing , but I'm not a hundred percent confident on the ages.. ( nor will I swear that its not some odd gull for your location. )I'm trying to hammer out the exactitudes of the gull IDs , myself, the experts seem rather contradictory. I've got some I'd like a second opinion on.</blockquote>