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Can 2 AF assist lamps be used at the same time? (on camera & off camera ext' flash)
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<blockquote data-quote="WayneF" data-source="post: 376912" data-attributes="member: 12496"><p><strong>Re: Can 2 AF assist lamps be used at the same time? (on camera & off camera ext' flas</strong></p><p></p><p>I know that dome is not expensive, so it won't cause missed meals. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> And any experience we get is a good thing. And I ought to know to keep my mouth shut, no one asked. And this not addressed specifically to you Paul, but written in general on the forum for anyone interested.</p><p></p><p>But I'm not a fan of such diffusers. I'd suggest regular bounce would be better lighting.</p><p></p><p>Because, these little domes are still tiny, and they cannot increase the size of the light. All diffusion can do is to only simply scatter the light, output at all different angles. But from a tiny source, all it can do is scatter it outward, away from the subject, to entirely miss the subject. That seems wrong. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> We like to pretend it bounces off all the room walls and comes back to the subject, and maybe somewhat does if in a small room, but otherwise, giving thought to the inverse square law (reflections compared to the direct path) mostly makes it be wishful thinking.</p><p></p><p>In contrast, a large light (an umbrella, or a softbox... anything like 3 or 4 foot size, assuming appropriately close to subject) is large enough to scatter it inward, toward the subject from its wider edges. For example, from a 36 inch light (umbrella), there is some light from 18 inches to the subjects left, and some from 18 inches to their right, and top and bottom, and all paths in between - light from all angles - to the subject. If close (3 or 4 feet), the subject sees light from a wide source. All these different light paths and angles fill the shadows from all the other light paths, making very soft light. This does assume a light distance comparable to the size of the light, a 3 foot light can't do this if at 12 feet. But by the same argument, the little two inch flash head can do as much if at a distance of only 2 inches. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> And a little light maybe only one foot size can be tremendous for macro work at six inches.</p><p></p><p>So diffusion is good, but it needs to be from a large source. Light quality is primarily about light size, and the little domes don't have any size.</p><p></p><p>Beginners may not have learned to actually look at their pictures yet to evaluate the light, to see if the light is actually doing what they imagined it should do. We should be able to see whatever we think we are doing, but we first have to learn to look, and see. It is a classic situation, this is never the first thing beginners pick up. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> They are not yet aware what they are looking at. The domes can have one effect though, of causing the flash to have to use a higher power level to compensate. This power can give the speedlight flash a slightly warmer red cast, which sometimes we in fact tend to like. Which sometimes we confuse with better lighting. We need to learn to see the color, and the light, its shadows, etc. It's not hard, we just have to realize what we are looking for.</p><p></p><p>Bounce is quite good because it is LARGE bright spot on the white ceiling above, which is very much like a very large umbrella up there. Very soft light. The downside is that light from above is not really the best choice, so we do want it in front of the subject too (flash aimed straight up on camera does that). It is more power used that way too. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> But is natural light from up there, and clearly much better than other hot shoe choices. We can add a SMALL bounce card on the hot shoe flash, maybe 1.5x1 inches, to direct a little direct forward spill for fill. This can cause highlights in the eyes (desirable, looks "alive" in there), and slightly fill some of the shadows, eye sockets for example. But just a small bounce card, because such a bounce card that is too large just becomes direct forward flash again. Easy to overdo. We can see this if we think to look.</p><p></p><p>Umbrellas are good because we can aim them, and set them close to subject. They are fixed, but close makes them appear even larger, wider angles, as seen by the subject... which is softer. At least bounce is walk around, not fixed.</p><p></p><p>If interested, there are a couple of pages at <a href="http://www.scantips.com/lights/flashbasics3.html" target="_blank">Four Flash Photography Basics we must know - Soft Light</a> intended to show this point.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="WayneF, post: 376912, member: 12496"] [b]Re: Can 2 AF assist lamps be used at the same time? (on camera & off camera ext' flas[/b] I know that dome is not expensive, so it won't cause missed meals. :) And any experience we get is a good thing. And I ought to know to keep my mouth shut, no one asked. And this not addressed specifically to you Paul, but written in general on the forum for anyone interested. But I'm not a fan of such diffusers. I'd suggest regular bounce would be better lighting. Because, these little domes are still tiny, and they cannot increase the size of the light. All diffusion can do is to only simply scatter the light, output at all different angles. But from a tiny source, all it can do is scatter it outward, away from the subject, to entirely miss the subject. That seems wrong. :) We like to pretend it bounces off all the room walls and comes back to the subject, and maybe somewhat does if in a small room, but otherwise, giving thought to the inverse square law (reflections compared to the direct path) mostly makes it be wishful thinking. In contrast, a large light (an umbrella, or a softbox... anything like 3 or 4 foot size, assuming appropriately close to subject) is large enough to scatter it inward, toward the subject from its wider edges. For example, from a 36 inch light (umbrella), there is some light from 18 inches to the subjects left, and some from 18 inches to their right, and top and bottom, and all paths in between - light from all angles - to the subject. If close (3 or 4 feet), the subject sees light from a wide source. All these different light paths and angles fill the shadows from all the other light paths, making very soft light. This does assume a light distance comparable to the size of the light, a 3 foot light can't do this if at 12 feet. But by the same argument, the little two inch flash head can do as much if at a distance of only 2 inches. :) And a little light maybe only one foot size can be tremendous for macro work at six inches. So diffusion is good, but it needs to be from a large source. Light quality is primarily about light size, and the little domes don't have any size. Beginners may not have learned to actually look at their pictures yet to evaluate the light, to see if the light is actually doing what they imagined it should do. We should be able to see whatever we think we are doing, but we first have to learn to look, and see. It is a classic situation, this is never the first thing beginners pick up. :) They are not yet aware what they are looking at. The domes can have one effect though, of causing the flash to have to use a higher power level to compensate. This power can give the speedlight flash a slightly warmer red cast, which sometimes we in fact tend to like. Which sometimes we confuse with better lighting. We need to learn to see the color, and the light, its shadows, etc. It's not hard, we just have to realize what we are looking for. Bounce is quite good because it is LARGE bright spot on the white ceiling above, which is very much like a very large umbrella up there. Very soft light. The downside is that light from above is not really the best choice, so we do want it in front of the subject too (flash aimed straight up on camera does that). It is more power used that way too. :) But is natural light from up there, and clearly much better than other hot shoe choices. We can add a SMALL bounce card on the hot shoe flash, maybe 1.5x1 inches, to direct a little direct forward spill for fill. This can cause highlights in the eyes (desirable, looks "alive" in there), and slightly fill some of the shadows, eye sockets for example. But just a small bounce card, because such a bounce card that is too large just becomes direct forward flash again. Easy to overdo. We can see this if we think to look. Umbrellas are good because we can aim them, and set them close to subject. They are fixed, but close makes them appear even larger, wider angles, as seen by the subject... which is softer. At least bounce is walk around, not fixed. If interested, there are a couple of pages at [url=http://www.scantips.com/lights/flashbasics3.html]Four Flash Photography Basics we must know - Soft Light[/url] intended to show this point. [/QUOTE]
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Can 2 AF assist lamps be used at the same time? (on camera & off camera ext' flash)
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