Advice on dealing with a photography problem.

[Dave_W]

Here's the situation. Back in October I was at the park with my grandson and as usual I had my camera with me. He was playing with the kids there and one of them, a very cute little girl that we've played with many times, was there with her nanny. When she saw me with the camera she started hamming it up and so I photographed her. The pictures are great, not only is she super cute but she had on a cute little sun hat and the photos were worthy of framing.

About a month or so later I saw the girl and her nanny at the park and told her the photos came out great and gave the nanny my card to give to the girls parents to tell them to email me so that I can forward them these great photos of their daughter. I didn't hear back from the parents and pretty much forgot about it.

Then about 3 weeks ago I received a very snarky email from the mom saying she was unaware that photos were being taken of her daughter (using multiple question marks after many sentences) and to provide her with the pictures immediately. So I wrote her back explaining who I am (we've met several times in the past) and how I was at the park one day and my grandson and her daughter playing together and I got a couple of excellent photos of her daughter. I added thumbnail photos to the email and said if she liked them I would provide them with the full megapixel file. I could understand she might have received the message in an unintended way so I tried very hard to reminder her who I am and how I came to have photos of her daughter.

A week later I hear back from her and it's a letter telling me to never take photos of her daughter again without her permission and to please forward her the full megapixel files. My first thought was to write her back with an equally snarky letter but I decided I would just ignore it and forget about the entire episode. You know, I was trying to be nice in offering them these images and so after that email I no longer want to give them away.

Well, today (about 2 weeks later) I received a third email telling me that she hasn't received the photos and would I please send them right away. I'm torn between just telling her to go jump in a lake or to write this off as a lesson learned, tell her I didn't appreciate the attitude in her emails and that I do not need her permission but give her the files anyway or ignore this email like the last one?

Not sure which avenue to take on this one. Anyone else run into something like this?

 

[fotojack]

What I would do is just send her the files and be done with it. No need to continue the drama that this ungrateful woman wants to play. Some people are just funny like that, Dave, so I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Just send her the files and call it a day.

 

[Moab Man]

I would be the bigger person and send her the photos and a letter saying that I apologize for upsetting her and understand not every one sees an act of kindness the same way. Enjoy the photos and no further correspondence will be read or sent. Have a good day.

 

[AC016]

I was at the wadding pool with my daughter once and aside from her and I, there were maybe a few other kids around. I was taking photos of her with my mobile, making sure no other kids were in the shot. I had the lifeguard come over and tell me i could not take photos at the pool, even if it was of my OWN flesh and blood. Well, i did not argue, since i did not need the police to get involved. If i were you, just send her the files and be done with it. She can't do much after you have given her the files... can she?

 

[Don Kuykendall_RIP]

No good deed goes unpunished.

 

[Moab Man]

No good deed goes unpunished.

The rule I live by.

 

[Rexer John]

Since she doesn't want to accept your gift. I'd send her the full megapixel photos, with text across the center saying "FULL MEGAPIXEL IMAGES SENT AS REQUESTED".
But hey, I'm a rebel.

 

[silvertip]

Send her the files, then send her emails demanding payment in full.

 

[Dave_W]

I'm glad I asked for advice. I had written out an email explaining how offended I was and how I have no legal obligation to seek her permission nor do I have to give her the photos. But then after reflecting on it I figured it would be best to get a second opinion. If I had a scenario like AC laid out, I would have stood my ground and pressed the 1st amendment clause but in this case I suppose I'll pass the files on and consider it a lesson learned. They live in our neighborhood and who knows, maybe something good will come of it....(yeah, right! )

Thanks all!

 

[RickSawThat]

I would just let her know you won't shoot her daughter and give her the files. Who cares in the end.

I shoot street portraits in the same spot and have been doing so for over a year. In the past year I have had less than 3 or 4 people actually say something to me. I did have one person say if I point my camera at him he would break my camera. That is an illegal threat. What I did do was make sure I did not point the camera in his direction for the rest of my time that day. The person is a worker who tries to get people to go into a shop on Hollywood Blvd. So he is there for hours at a time. When I was done shooting I walked up to him and started a conversation. I told him what I do and it is indeed legal for me to shoot on a public sidewalk BUT I do respect if certain people don't want their picture shot. I see this guy all the time we are okay with each other now. Not friends but not confrontational at all. Mutual respect.

Hundreds of people go by me each day I'm out there I'm not lacking for subject matter. All anyone has to do is ask me not to shoot them and I won't. Also if they cover their face as they see my camera I make sure I move the camera away from pointing at them.

Many of these are street people and who knows their pasts or reasons for privacy. I get that. I recognize those people and make sure they see I don't point the camera at them. I need to be accepted and part of that street scene too. Knowing the street ethics/rules is part of why I can keep coming and keep shooting.

I have gotten to know a few of the people who live on the street. Some of the stories they tell me about how they survive include doing things that make me understand they don't want their picture taken, it's a tough life and tough to get out of.

Over one year of shooting on Hollywood Blvd. I would say there have been less than a dozen people who want this privacy. It's not a big deal at all and I never feel threatened and am completely comfortable being there anytime I want.

 

[RockyNH_RIP]

Since she doesn't wasn't to accept your gift. I'd send her the full megapixel photos, with text across the center saying "FULL MEGAPIXEL IMAGES SENT AS REQUESTED".
But hey, I'm a rebel.

I like this option!!!

Really though, I would close the books on this lady... send her the stuff and be done... I do not think I would "apologize" nor would I poke the Tiger

Good luck Dave..

Pat in NH

 

[Don Kuykendall_RIP]

At least Put "Proof" across the child's face.

Does she think that sending her the file means you no longer have the original? This is not a negative. LOL

 

[stmv]

I have a strict rule, no kids photography without pre asking the parents, I am afraid the bad apples of the world have ruined it a bit. and I give my email account and let them know that they can have a JPEG copy, and when requested, I provide the reduced jpeg, and tell them that high quality prints are available. of course, by then the special moment is gone anyway, so why bother.

so, essentially unless family, ignore kids as subjects.

 

[BackdoorArts]

Not a lot to add here other than to cite a similar experience to ST016's when a bunch of us walked into my old high school swimming pool during a tour for our HS reunion and people started freaking when we were talking pictures of the empty end of the pool because kids were at the other end. The world's a sick place, and I can understand a parent's concern over photos of their child existing out there. But I'd be less concerned if I learned about it from a photographer that I'd met previously who was offering to give them to me than I would if I got an unsolicitied email trying to sell them to me.

I don't shoot strangers very often, and if I do and make eye contact I'll give them a quick, "May I?", before squeezing the shutter. Strangers' kids demand that I make contact first and ask, and offer to send them copies - but I've only done that once. Not worth the hassle, even for a nice photo. Chalk this one up to experience. Just hoping the nanny didn't get fired for not stopping you. I suspect she at least got a tongue lashing that might make her wish she did. :-/

 

[Dave_W]

I sent them to her the JPEG's with my watermark and zero words in the text field. I'd be glad to provide them watermark-less JPEGs but it comes with a fee. And yes, lesson learned.

 

[§am]

Reading this, my first thoughts were, is this parent trying to get the originals off you a) so she thinks you don't have a copy anymore, b) trying to set you up for a brush with the law somehow!!

As a parent of young kids I would certainly be riled by the fact that a somewhat stranger (you mention you have met the parents a few times) was taking pictures of my kids without my permission.
However, at the time of the pictures, you had the nanny's permission, and as the legal guardian of the girl at the time, I would say there is no course for any action against you.

Personally I would reply back and say following the negativity of her previous emails, you have deleted the originals and no longer have them (which you should do anyway), and then as others have said, put this one down to experience/lesson learned.
Or, if you have a picture of the nanny, send that one, too, and mention, original permission requested from this person.

In public places everything is open to see, and therefore IMO you can photograph it, but when it comes to kids, I personally would be very wary of it. There are too many sickos out there that with the perverted actions have made life for the innocents amongst us a lot harder.
Think back a few decades ago; would we really be so protective of our kids like we are now - probably not to be honest, but the world has changed for better or worse.

 

[stmv]

Stick to Dog pictures! but I have even seen some dog owners get worked up..

 

[Rexer John]

Dave W, I've just had a look at the pics in your sig link.

The watermark is subtle yet effective. I'm really chuffed that you didn't send her pics that she could just print to frame and put on her wall.

P.S. You have lot's of awesome pics on your website.
Her loss, bigtime!

 

[Rick M]

I would send her the Jpegs as you did and inform her that the pics have been permanently deleted if she responds to you again. As a parent I would be angered. This is a scary area to be in due to the society we live in. I have had neighbor kids ask me to take pics of them and I will not, even if the parent consented. The only way I would even do a child portrait is with a written contract.

What is really important to consider is that it does not matter if you are within your rights. An upset wacko mom can go to the police and a judge can very easily issue a search warrant to take your camera, gear and computers to make sure you are not the perv she has told them you are. Good luck getting that stuff back timely or ever. Your rights do not matter in this kind of stuff, you will loose, become a true victim and be lucky if your name is not in the paper.

When you prove you are innocent and had every right to take the pics, it won't matter. Your gear is gone and your name is ruined.

So much for innocent until proven guilty.

 

[Cochese]

I would send her the Jpegs as you did and inform her that the pics have been permanently deleted if she responds to you again. As a parent I would be angered. This is a scary area to be in due to the society we live in. I have had neighbor kids ask me to take pics of them and I will not, even if the parent consented. The only way I would even do a child portarit is with a written contract.

What is really important to consider is that it does not matter if you are within your rights. An upset mom can go to the police and a judge can very easily issue a search warrant to take your camera, gear and computers to make sure you are not the perv she has told them you are. Good luck getting that stuff back timely or ever. Your rights do not matter in this kind of stuff, you will loose, become a true victim and be lucky if your name is not in the paper.

Kinda with Rick and Sam on this one as a general rule. I treat it as I would the other way: I don't want people taking pictures of my kids, legal rights be damned, so I don't do it in reverse. You run into situations like this, where emotions get in the way of civility and reason. I would have deleted the pictures as well, she didn't deserve them.