A filter question thread. (ND and CP)

[Awhat]

Hi,

So I do a lot of landscape photography and I've noticed that every waterfall I've been too, I have been unable to get a really 'silky' looking waterfall / water as no matter what time I've been its always very bright.

Therefore I've been looking at buying a Neutral Density Filter and then a circular polarizing filter just to bring out the colours of landscapes etc.

As a new photographer, do you guys have any recommendations? i.e. should I buy them both? Start with an ND first OR CP?

In regards to the above question, I'm tossing up between an ND4 and an ND8 ; Is it better to go for a higher ND? i.e. 8 just in case I need the extra? Or better to start with a lower? ND4 for example.

I'm shooting with a D3200 with kit lenses.

Cheers!

 

[Lawrence]

Good question and I would be interested to hear what the experts say.
My own research seems to indicate to start with a lower number.

 

[Moab Man]

I would suggest a variable ND filter of a brand name. It will cost a bit, but the quality is worth it.

And yes, a CP filter would be great for colors in the landscape shots.

I would buy both as they each do a different job not replicated by the other.

 

[Moab Man]

One more point to add in. Buy a large size and then some step down rings to fit various size lenses. Early on I made the mistake of buying the size I needed for a given lens and then had to buy another with the addition of a larger lens.

 

[Awhat]

Good question and I would be interested to hear what the experts say.
My own research seems to indicate to start with a lower number.

Lower number as in ND2-ND4?

I would suggest a variable ND filter of a brand name. It will cost a bit, but the quality is worth it.

And yes, a CP filter would be great for colors in the landscape shots.

I would buy both as they each do a different job not replicated by the other.

Trying to save as much as I can before I go on an overseas trip, would a variable ND greatly outweight a normal ND Filter?

Okay great thanks.

One more point to add in. Buy a large size and then some step down rings to fit various size lenses. Early on I made the mistake of buying the size I needed for a given lens and then had to buy another with the addition of a larger lens.

Completely forgot about that, will do cheers.

 

[Moab Man]

Having walked this path you're on... my advice. Get the CP and simply wait on the ND until you can buy the proper tool once and hold off on getting the silky water shots.

 

[Awhat]

Having walked this path you're on... my advice. Get the CP and simply wait on the ND until you can buy the proper tool once and hold off on getting the silky water shots.

Alright sounds like a good idea, cheers!

 

[hark]

My advice is going to be different from Moab Man's. I haven't used the variable neutral density filter, but from what I've read here, it doesn't always work well. When rotating the ring, something happens--can't remember what it is, but hopefully people such as @BackdoorHippie will explain why they no longer use one. It might have something to do with the effect being uneven across the image.

A Circular Polarizer will cut the light slightly so in a way it acts as a weak ND filter. It isn't nearly as strong as a real one though. It will cut reflections on water and glass plus will pop your colors when used correctly. Comments I remember reading about ND filters say that 3-stops isn't always enough so you might want to start with a 6-stop. A 9- or 10-stop filter is really good, but the stronger they are, the more expensive they become.

If you are using filters on wide angle lenses, some are made with a slim profile (thinner) which helps cut down on vignetting. You will notice more vignetting on wide angle lenses more than you will when using filters on normal and/or telephoto lenses unless you get the slim profile filters.

 

[kiwi86]

Big Stopper and Little Stopper long exposure filters from LEE Filters.

 

[Horoscope Fish]

Hi,

So I do a lot of landscape photography and I've noticed that every waterfall I've been too, I have been unable to get a really 'silky' looking waterfall / water as no matter what time I've been its always very bright.

Therefore I've been looking at buying a Neutral Density Filter and then a circular polarizing filter just to bring out the colours of landscapes etc.

As a new photographer, do you guys have any recommendations? i.e. should I buy them both? Start with an ND first OR CP?

In regards to the above question, I'm tossing up between an ND4 and an ND8 ; Is it better to go for a higher ND? i.e. 8 just in case I need the extra? Or better to start with a lower? ND4 for example.

I'm shooting with a D3200 with kit lenses.

Cheers!

I would suggest both filters. For a circular polarizing filter I'd suggest the Hoya HD CPL. Super hard glass and easy to clean (some multi-coated filters can be insanely difficult to clean) and you'll get a lot more light transmitted using this filter. I've tried a few different CPL's over the years and this is The One.

As for ND filters I don't care for variables. I would suggest the Hoya ND 400 X.

....

 

[BackdoorArts]

I've said it before, ad nauseum. Do a search on ND's for details. (People realize that's it's highly probably this place has answered their questions already, right?! Sorry for the tone, but really, there's an ND question every 2 weeks or less.)

Reader's Digest? Get one good 9 or 10 stop ND and stop the horseshit with anything less. Variable ND's are almost always going to give you fits in the range you really want to use 'em (after 5 or 6 stops).

 

[Awhat]

My advice is going to be different from Moab Man's. I haven't used the variable neutral density filter, but from what I've read here, it doesn't always work well. When rotating the ring, something happens--can't remember what it is, but hopefully people such as @BackdoorHippie will explain why they no longer use one. It might have something to do with the effect being uneven across the image.

A Circular Polarizer will cut the light slightly so in a way it acts as a weak ND filter. It isn't nearly as strong as a real one though. It will cut reflections on water and glass plus will pop your colors when used correctly. Comments I remember reading about ND filters say that 3-stops isn't always enough so you might want to start with a 6-stop. A 9- or 10-stop filter is really good, but the stronger they are, the more expensive they become.

If you are using filters on wide angle lenses, some are made with a slim profile (thinner) which helps cut down on vignetting. You will notice more vignetting on wide angle lenses more than you will when using filters on normal and/or telephoto lenses unless you get the slim profile filters.

Alright awesome Cheers, I'll have a look into why.

Big Stopper and Little Stopper long exposure filters from LEE Filters.

cheers!

I would suggest both filters. For a circular polarizing filter I'd suggest the Hoya HD CPL. Super hard glass and easy to clean (some multi-coated filters can be insanely difficult to clean) and you'll get a lot more light transmitted using this filter. I've tried a few different CPL's over the years and this is The One.

As for ND filters I don't care for variables. I would suggest the Hoya ND 400 X.

....

Thanks for your help,

just quickly howcome you would recommend a nd4 over an nd8? is there any reason or is it better to start with lower first etc?

I've said it before, ad nauseum. Do a search on ND's for details. (People realize that's it's highly probably this place has answered their questions already, right?! Sorry for the tone, but really, there's an ND question every 2 weeks or less.)

Reader's Digest? Get one good 9 or 10 stop ND and stop the horseshit with anything less. Variable ND's are almost always going to give you fits in the range you really want to use 'em (after 5 or 6 stops).

I've done research and searched and done comparisons between ND4/8 stc I just wanted some actual advice from people I.e they started with nd4, regretted should have got nd8 etc.

cool thanks for your advice!

 

[Horoscope Fish]

just quickly howcome you would recommend a nd4 over an nd8? is there any reason or is it better to start with lower first etc?

The Hoya 400X is a 9-stop ND filter.

The reason I suggest a nine-stop is because anything less, really, is a waste of time for what you want to do. I suggest the Hoya because it's an excellent filter that won't bankrupt you.

...

 

[Scott Ramsey]

Another idea, I shoot a lot of waterfalls and mountain streams and never use an ND. I get there early in the morning or late in the evening when the light is less harsh or I try to go on overcast days. I always us a CPL and stop down to f/11 or smaller. Here is an example from this past weekend of a small waterfall in TN.

 

[SteveL54]

Reader's Digest? Get one good 9 or 10 stop ND and stop the horseshit with anything less. Variable ND's are almost always going to give you fits in the range you really want to use 'em (after 5 or 6 stops).

This may be the best answer ever.....

BTW, Jake - you owe me a new keyboard. I was drinking coffee when I read this.

 

[hark]

I've said it before, ad nauseum. Do a search on ND's for details. (People realize that's it's highly probably this place has answered their questions already, right?! Sorry for the tone, but really, there's an ND question every 2 weeks or less.)

Reader's Digest? Get one good 9 or 10 stop ND and stop the horseshit with anything less. Variable ND's are almost always going to give you fits in the range you really want to use 'em (after 5 or 6 stops).

Sorry about the mention as I should have done a search myself to find your former words of wisdom. Guaranteed I'll think twice before mentioning you again. Coming from a family of teachers and having a teaching degree myself, I forget I am in the minority when it comes to enjoying answering repeat questions. Guess I look at it from a different perspective than many others...it's a chance to show the OP (who is sometimes a newbie) that Nikonites is a friendly forum that will help to further educate him/her by offering a response that is catered specifically to the OP.

Alright awesome Cheers, I'll have a look into why.

Here is a video that shows you how it looks through the lens when using a CP filter. If the light is behind you or in front of you, it won't work to enhance the color of the sky. If you have the light coming from the correct direction, you will see the changes in the viewfinder when you rotate the filter.

Just be sure to keep watch of your entire scene. A friend invited me to photograph golfers during their tournament. We took group shots of each team of players before they teed off. We were using 35mm film cameras--couldn't see the images until the photos were processed. The sky in my photos was incredibly blue, but the grass looked dull and lacking in the color green because I rotated the filter too much. Had I kept watch of the overall scene, I would have dialed it back a little. My friend's photos which were not taken with a CP filter actually looked better overall because the grass was really green and truer to color.

 

[BackdoorArts]

Sorry about the mention as I should have done a search myself to find your former words of wisdom. Guaranteed I'll think twice before mentioning you again. Coming from a family of teachers and having a teaching degree myself, I forget I am in the minority when it comes to enjoying answering repeat questions. Guess I look at it from a different perspective than many others...it's a chance to show the OP (who is sometimes a newbie) that Nikonites is a friendly forum that will help to further educate him/her by offering a response that is catered specifically to the OP.

Why do you think I'm pointing to you? As I said, there's one of these every 7-14 days, like clockwork, asking either about Variable ND's or how many stops to get... It's as if no one ever searches first. I don't mind getting asked into a thread, but if you look at every ND post in the last 3 months you'll see almost exactly the same response in each. Yes, this place is helpful and friendly, and maybe I'm just a a little grumpy lately, but I've made it a point for 15 years of internet forum browsing to use the Search function first before asking a question - especially when I'm new to a place. jdeg has done us all a favor by not limiting search criteria to words over 3 letters (THANK YOU!!), so when I type "ND filter", "CP filter", "variable ND" in the search box I actually get something back (heck, depending on what I enter I get 14 threads just from the last 30 days). So when an answer not only appears, but appears rather regularly, I'm sorry but I'm going to poke a bit and remind folks there's a search function.

 

[Vixen]

I'd recommend both too ie polariser (I use Hoya also) and ND400. If you can afford something like the Lee BigStopper go for it as they are supposedly VERY good.

You can't use them both at the same time (if circular filters), and you will most likely need to cover your eyepiece when taking longer exposures especially if it is bright & sunny (using the ND400).

I do quite a bit of long exposure water and find that in the shade and on dull days my polariser is enough, which is great because you get the polarising benefit too.

 

[Rick M]

Compare ND filters by "stops" and not numbers like 4 or 8, they may not be consistent across manufacturers.

Strength depends on shooting conditions, I do not shoot waterfalls in direct sunlight anymore (too many blown out highlights) so a 3 or 6 stop is all I need.

This was shot with a 6 stop at f8 on an overcast day,

 

[Awhat]

The Hoya 400X is a 9-stop ND filter.

The reason I suggest a nine-stop is because anything less, really, is a waste of time for what you want to do. I suggest the Hoya because it's an excellent filter that won't bankrupt you.

...

ALright thanks, sorry I confused the ND4 with ND400 - didnt realise the 400X was actually a 9-Stop. Cheers I think I'm going to pick that up this afternoon; as well as a CPL.

Another idea, I shoot a lot of waterfalls and mountain streams and never use an ND. I get there early in the morning or late in the evening when the light is less harsh or I try to go on overcast days. I always us a CPL and stop down to f/11 or smaller. Here is an example from this past weekend of a small waterfall in TN.

That looks really nice man! Do you find the CPL brings out your waterfall colours much?

Here is a video that shows you how it looks through the lens when using a CP filter. If the light is behind you or in front of you, it won't work to enhance the color of the sky. If you have the light coming from the correct direction, you will see the changes in the viewfinder when you rotate the filter.

Just be sure to keep watch of your entire scene. A friend invited me to photograph golfers during their tournament. We took group shots of each team of players before they teed off. We were using 35mm film cameras--couldn't see the images until the photos were processed. The sky in my photos was incredibly blue, but the grass looked dull and lacking in the color green because I rotated the filter too much. Had I kept watch of the overall scene, I would have dialed it back a little. My friend's photos which were not taken with a CP filter actually looked better overall because the grass was really green and truer to color.

Awesome thanks for the video,

didn't even think of the lighting situation in regards to the CP, cheers for the heads up.

I'd recommend both too ie polariser (I use Hoya also) and ND400. If you can afford something like the Lee BigStopper go for it as they are supposedly VERY good.

You can't use them both at the same time (if circular filters), and you will most likely need to cover your eyepiece when taking longer exposures especially if it is bright & sunny (using the ND400).

I do quite a bit of long exposure water and find that in the shade and on dull days my polariser is enough, which is great because you get the polarising benefit too.

Awesome, do you ever find the ND400 is ever 'too dark'? or 'too dark' combined with the polariser?

Cheers for your info mate

Compare ND filters by "stops" and not numbers like 4 or 8, they may not be consistent across manufacturers.

Strength depends on shooting conditions, I do not shoot waterfalls in direct sunlight anymore (too many blown out highlights) so a 3 or 6 stop is all I need.

This was shot with a 6 stop at f8 on an overcast day,


View attachment 122298

Cheers, yeah I Just realised that an ND400x isn't actually ND4... its a 9 stop lol.

That's a beatiful photo! so you just used a 6-stop; did you use a CP or anything as well? How were you able to bring out the colours of the grass / moss etc so well?