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2 TTL-BL flashes
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<blockquote data-quote="WayneF" data-source="post: 580723" data-attributes="member: 12496"><p>The TTL vs TTL BL menu is a very strong feature for the flash, a very strong plus. Nikon flashes used to do that too, but it is disappearing, and now only the SB-910 has that choice. Even the new $600 SB-5000 does not. Extremely few third party flashes have the menu. I mostly stay with older SB-800s that have it. The default for the camera flash metering system is TTL BL, and I feel sure your master mode is default TTL BL (the metering system does that), even if its selection choice says TTL. Nikon Commander does that too. Any menu in the Nikon camera says only TTL, even when the default is TTL BL. More convenient shorter menu I suppose... </p><p></p><p>So saying, I suspect it is correctly implemented, it is only a menu choice, an on or off choice, and then communicating with the camera metering system to tell it what metering method to use. The camera does all metering and control, the flash only responds to power level instructions.</p><p>This menu is a strong plus, it is the only way for force TTL other than Spot Metering (of ambient), which then involves much complication itself. Beginners tend to NOT understand Spot Metering. But indoors with insignificant ambient (low ISO), Spot metering has no other effect.</p><p></p><p>My own use is to only use TTL mode for indoor hotshoe flash, and maybe TTL BL for automatic fill in bright sun.</p><p></p><p>The term TTL is used with at least three meanings, which can be confusing, so we sort of have to know what the subject is.</p><p></p><p>1. TTL is for Through The Lens metering, just meaning automatic flash exposure. That's what the camera menus mean, it means automatically does whatever the flash system does. That default is TTL BL.</p><p></p><p>2. TTL is the name of the Film flash metering system. Some uses of TTL absolutely implies Film TTL.</p><p>Digital requires differences, first try was named D-TTL, and now iTTL (for Nikon).</p><p></p><p>3. But digital iTTL has metering modes TTL and TTL BL, so TTL can mean that specific iTTL variation.</p><p></p><p>TTL uses whatever the metering says flash exposure should be, so flash exposure comes ahead strong, regardless of any ambient. So if in fully exposed ambient (like high ISO or bright sun), this sum will overexpose the subject one stop. So we just learn that TTL in bright sun should be routinely compensated about -1.67 stops (a commonly suggested value).</p><p></p><p>TTL BL does automatic flash compensation, and in bright sun, probably about -2 EV will be done. So any correction amount we enter should be minor, and NOT the full compensation value (because TTL BL is probably already doing about -2 EV). The camera does NOT show this number, but it does it (and the Exif should show it).</p><p></p><p>Saying, the camera menu may use shorter definition 1 of TTL, but the metering will be definition 3, or whatever the system does.</p><p></p><p>What TTL means just depends on what we are talking about. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>The camera Exif can show the difference, saying TTL BL when it is (and showing actual TTL BL compensation sum). This requires a better Exif viewer to see it. See <a href="http://www.scantips.com/lights/exif.html" target="_blank">Camera Exif data - ExifTool</a></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I am puzzled by your numbers too. My experience, esp with TTL BL, is that I more often need maybe +1 EV flash compensation, especially with Commander and two flashes. Your experience seems the opposite, maybe -1 EV. One difference is your ambient is up at -1 EV, and my ambient is typically far down, insignificant (low ISO).</p><p></p><p>I still think perhaps using TTL mode (instead of TTL BL) might clear confusion about compensation (because TTL BL will be in there fighting you too), but of course, that is not a menu choice for the Master/Commander mode, except for using Spot Metering indoors. But if your ambient is adjusted bright with ISO (within one stop), Spot metering will affect it too.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="WayneF, post: 580723, member: 12496"] The TTL vs TTL BL menu is a very strong feature for the flash, a very strong plus. Nikon flashes used to do that too, but it is disappearing, and now only the SB-910 has that choice. Even the new $600 SB-5000 does not. Extremely few third party flashes have the menu. I mostly stay with older SB-800s that have it. The default for the camera flash metering system is TTL BL, and I feel sure your master mode is default TTL BL (the metering system does that), even if its selection choice says TTL. Nikon Commander does that too. Any menu in the Nikon camera says only TTL, even when the default is TTL BL. More convenient shorter menu I suppose... So saying, I suspect it is correctly implemented, it is only a menu choice, an on or off choice, and then communicating with the camera metering system to tell it what metering method to use. The camera does all metering and control, the flash only responds to power level instructions. This menu is a strong plus, it is the only way for force TTL other than Spot Metering (of ambient), which then involves much complication itself. Beginners tend to NOT understand Spot Metering. But indoors with insignificant ambient (low ISO), Spot metering has no other effect. My own use is to only use TTL mode for indoor hotshoe flash, and maybe TTL BL for automatic fill in bright sun. The term TTL is used with at least three meanings, which can be confusing, so we sort of have to know what the subject is. 1. TTL is for Through The Lens metering, just meaning automatic flash exposure. That's what the camera menus mean, it means automatically does whatever the flash system does. That default is TTL BL. 2. TTL is the name of the Film flash metering system. Some uses of TTL absolutely implies Film TTL. Digital requires differences, first try was named D-TTL, and now iTTL (for Nikon). 3. But digital iTTL has metering modes TTL and TTL BL, so TTL can mean that specific iTTL variation. TTL uses whatever the metering says flash exposure should be, so flash exposure comes ahead strong, regardless of any ambient. So if in fully exposed ambient (like high ISO or bright sun), this sum will overexpose the subject one stop. So we just learn that TTL in bright sun should be routinely compensated about -1.67 stops (a commonly suggested value). TTL BL does automatic flash compensation, and in bright sun, probably about -2 EV will be done. So any correction amount we enter should be minor, and NOT the full compensation value (because TTL BL is probably already doing about -2 EV). The camera does NOT show this number, but it does it (and the Exif should show it). Saying, the camera menu may use shorter definition 1 of TTL, but the metering will be definition 3, or whatever the system does. What TTL means just depends on what we are talking about. :) The camera Exif can show the difference, saying TTL BL when it is (and showing actual TTL BL compensation sum). This requires a better Exif viewer to see it. See [URL="http://www.scantips.com/lights/exif.html"]Camera Exif data - ExifTool[/URL] I am puzzled by your numbers too. My experience, esp with TTL BL, is that I more often need maybe +1 EV flash compensation, especially with Commander and two flashes. Your experience seems the opposite, maybe -1 EV. One difference is your ambient is up at -1 EV, and my ambient is typically far down, insignificant (low ISO). I still think perhaps using TTL mode (instead of TTL BL) might clear confusion about compensation (because TTL BL will be in there fighting you too), but of course, that is not a menu choice for the Master/Commander mode, except for using Spot Metering indoors. But if your ambient is adjusted bright with ISO (within one stop), Spot metering will affect it too. [/QUOTE]
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