help with focus

[Clovishound]

Gotcha. I read about that as well, but it has happened when I felt it wasn't hot enough to be present. Thanks for looking.

It doesn't have to be that warm. It's about the sun warming the surface warmer air rising into cooler air. It has to do with differential air temperatures. I have seen it on cool mornings with bright sun.

With the Z8, you should notice a big difference in how well the autofocus tracks subjects. Be sure and turn on object detection and choose the people icon. I had good luck with the 200-500 on my Z8 using 3D tracking mode with object detection for tracking birds in flight.

BTW, you will need an FTZ adapter to mount the 200-500 on the Z8.

 

[Needa]

Here is an article and VR in DLSR Nikon cameras you may find interesting.
https://dslrbodies.com/lenses/lens-articles/lens-technique/all-about-nikon-vr.html

 

[mhalweg]

It doesn't have to be that warm. It's about the sun warming the surface warmer air rising into cooler air. It has to do with differential air temperatures. I have seen it on cool mornings with bright sun.

With the Z8, you should notice a big difference in how well the autofocus tracks subjects. Be sure and turn on object detection and choose the people icon. I had good luck with the 200-500 on my Z8 using 3D tracking mode with object detection for tracking birds in flight.

BTW, you will need an FTZ adapter to mount the 200-500 on the Z8.

Thanks for the info. I reserved the adapter as well.

 

[mhalweg]

Here is an article and VR in DLSR Nikon cameras you may find interesting.
https://dslrbodies.com/lenses/lens-articles/lens-technique/all-about-nikon-vr.html

Hope I never read more on VR lol.

 

[Needa]

Hope I never read more on VR lol.

For me it's the retention that's the problem. Be sure to let us know how the Z8 test goes.

 

[mhalweg]

So I rented the Z8 on Monday and Friday for the state semi-final and championship games. I wasn't as happy with the images on Monday because all of my photos were shot at 5000 ISO during daylight because I thought i was setting the max ISO allowed, but nope! Results with the 200-500 were hard to tell.

I did better on Friday lol. I no longer think the lens is an issue. I played with some different focus types during my son's game this morning with the lens back on the D750 and it seemed to yield better results as well.

I think i may lean towards the D850 instead of a mirrorless though when I have enough money saved up. To many options with a mirrorless and omg, i have 7000 photos to cull through from Friday lol.

 

[Clovishound]

That 20 fps spits out a lot of images. If you don't mind JPGs, you can go up to 120 fps, which is insane. I have done some pre release capture with the Z8 at 30 fps. Pressing the shutter button for a mere 1/2 second spits out 45 images.

The D850 is a beast of a camera. It's big heavy and noisy. All but the last aren't necessarily a bad thing.

In the end, you are better off with whatever you are most comfortable with.

I'm a little surprised you ended up with such a high ISO. I assume you were shooting outside in daylight. Were you shooting at extremely high shutter speed? Do you have any de noise software? ISO 5000 will clean up nicely with a little processing.

 

[mhalweg]

That 20 fps spits out a lot of images. If you don't mind JPGs, you can go up to 120 fps, which is insane. I have done some pre release capture with the Z8 at 30 fps. Pressing the shutter button for a mere 1/2 second spits out 45 images.

The D850 is a beast of a camera. It's big heavy and noisy. All but the last aren't necessarily a bad thing.

In the end, you are better off with whatever you are most comfortable with.

I'm a little surprised you ended up with such a high ISO. I assume you were shooting outside in daylight. Were you shooting at extremely high shutter speed? Do you have any de noise software? ISO 5000 will clean up nicely with a little processing.

The ISO was my own doing. I set it like I do on my 750s. Instead of the expected max ISO allowed, I really set it as 5000 all the time. I only use the denoise in LR, but I'd prefer not having to lol. It worked out a lot better during Friday's game.

 

[nikonbill]

At least you are making progress and have improved understanding to build on. Many thanks for letting us know how things are going.

The following is just my humble opinion.

You really should be able to use your D750 and lens combo to take some very nice field sports photos. Are there faster focusing bodies/lens, yes there are but do you need one? All cameras of the past 10/15 years (maybe more) have so much adjust ability one has to really work at finding the adjustments that work for you. I think you should start by finding the combinations that work better (closer to the results you want) with what you have before getting something new. The same setup as another photographer may get you closer but please remember sometimes what will work for you can be different.

You did a great thing by renting the Z8, as you found getting a usable setup that yields good results for you may/likely take some time. Its a great body and would certainly "work" very well however maybe not an instant answer. Maybe renting the same parts would tell you more, same body then the same lens, make sure your gear is sound.

It is so easy to get lost with nearly any camera these days, I encourage you to get back to basics. Find some unimportant games to shoot a good round of shots using a predetermined plan and analyze your results. Once you find the minimum shutter speed that stops your action, find the f stop that gives the depth of area as sharp as you want. Auto ISO is your digital friend, very much so with moving targets. Then take the auto focus modes one at a time and go through the settings that affect them for your application. Use the Nikon setup information as guides and the info you receive on the internet with scrutiny (make sure it makes sense).

I consistently find adjustments that improve my results using familiar gear, I'm careful to make notes and try one thing at a time. I sincerely hope you do not find my comments demeaning in any way, and just something to think about. All the best - Bill

 

[Clovishound]

Also, keep in mind that while a rental trial will undoubtedly give you much more information than reading specs, it can take a month or two of use to get used to a new camera to the extent that you can give it a fair rating. This is especially true when going to a completely different system, such as going from DSLR to mirrorless. It took me a couple months to get comfortable with the transition from my Z7ii to my Z8. I thought it would be an easy transition, since they are both mirrorless, and both aimed at a similar market. There were so many more options available, and it took me a while to try different settings and decide which ones worked best for me. Not to mention buttons and controls are in different places.

If you are certain about sticking with DSLR, now is a good time to get the D850. While it lacks many of the features of the Z8, it is an extremely capable platform, and the pricing right now, is hard to beat. I doubt they will be selling new D850s in the near future.

 

[Burt]

So I rented the Z8 on Monday and Friday for the state semi-final and championship games. I wasn't as happy with the images on Monday because all of my photos were shot at 5000 ISO during daylight because I thought i was setting the max ISO allowed, but nope! Results with the 200-500 were hard to tell.

I did better on Friday lol. I no longer think the lens is an issue. I played with some different focus types during my son's game this morning with the lens back on the D750 and it seemed to yield better results as well.

I think i may lean towards the D850 instead of a mirrorless though when I have enough money saved up. To many options with a mirrorless and omg, i have 7000 photos to cull through from Friday lol.

I think I know exactly what you mean... In photography more often than not, less is better...

I was on the line myself between the D850 and the Z8 (they are virtually the same body), but as I already had three lenses with the Z mount, after looking at the prices I ended up with the Z7II... It does what I need for near half the price of a Z8...

 

[mhalweg]

At least you are making progress and have improved understanding to build on. Many thanks for letting us know how things are going.

The following is just my humble opinion.

You really should be able to use your D750 and lens combo to take some very nice field sports photos. Are there faster focusing bodies/lens, yes there are but do you need one? All cameras of the past 10/15 years (maybe more) have so much adjust ability one has to really work at finding the adjustments that work for you. I think you should start by finding the combinations that work better (closer to the results you want) with what you have before getting something new. The same setup as another photographer may get you closer but please remember sometimes what will work for you can be different.

You did a great thing by renting the Z8, as you found getting a usable setup that yields good results for you may/likely take some time. Its a great body and would certainly "work" very well however maybe not an instant answer. Maybe renting the same parts would tell you more, same body then the same lens, make sure your gear is sound.

It is so easy to get lost with nearly any camera these days, I encourage you to get back to basics. Find some unimportant games to shoot a good round of shots using a predetermined plan and analyze your results. Once you find the minimum shutter speed that stops your action, find the f stop that gives the depth of area as sharp as you want. Auto ISO is your digital friend, very much so with moving targets. Then take the auto focus modes one at a time and go through the settings that affect them for your application. Use the Nikon setup information as guides and the info you receive on the internet with scrutiny (make sure it makes sense).

I consistently find adjustments that improve my results using familiar gear, I'm careful to make notes and try one thing at a time. I sincerely hope you do not find my comments demeaning in any way, and just something to think about. All the best - Bill

I can take good pictures with the 750. This all started because I was having difficulties getting in-focus shots with my 200-500mm.

Another reason for the new body would be for the 45MP. Hate not being able to print larger images.

No offense taken. Appreciate the input.

 

[nikonbill]

I understand the long focal length is where the issue is for you. When you go out that long focus accuracy changes, the point of contact is much smaller.

Hitting the point you want becomes much more challenging.

When you get through some of your Z8 images the radical increase in focus points may make it evedent if this would assist you at long focal length.

I do have a D850 and the D500 the D500 is a ultra fast focusing body. The D850 is very similar to me in speed. As I have said I think the D750 should be usable but maybe not for everyone.

I re-read the post so far and unless I've missed it we have not discussed your processing. As you kindly posted links to your out of camera photos, I was certainly looking at them as before processing. Maybe we are looking at technique when we should look at processing.

A clue is you mentioning your desire to print larger. There is no dought higher megapixels make larger prints easier and with more detail. But with today's digital dark room, generating a file capable of large prints has never been easier. As an example I recently had a 16x24 inch metal print of a great blue heron done by Nations photo lab from my D500 sensor (20 megapixal) it was processed in Affinity photo, it turned out really nice. The original file was even cropped. A 30mp .jpg sRGB file was supplied to them to make the print.

You mentioned comparing your photos to others, maybe how they are processed holds a key. I don't use the same settings for different lens's. What is your current processing routine like?

 

[mhalweg]

I'm able to get 16x24, I was wanting to print 36x24.

I start in LR. Check the Remove Chromatic Abberration/Enable Profile Corrections. Click the Level button and see what it looks like. Crop. Then I hit the Auto button in the Basic pallet and adjust sliders as needed. Adjust white balance if needed. Sometimes I will play with the Tone Curve. Denoise some if needed.

Then I edit in PS. Select some combination of Auto Tone, Contrast, and Color. Some combo of Auto Level and Curve. Reduce saturation of blue when have white jerseys or blue haze throughout. Will make other adjustments here and there. Save. Export out of LR.

These were my resulting edits of the second time I rented the Z8. Much better results than earlier in the week. All of the 200-500mm images were taken with the Z8. I used my 24-70 and 70-200 with the D750s. I still have the RAWs if needed.

Love being able to cover 24-500mm, but hate having the sequence of photos out of order in the end.

5-22-26 State Championship (950 Pics) - Google Drive

drive.google.com

 

[nikonbill]

I took a look though you photos and it sure looks like some great results to me.

Thanks for the rundown on your editing, it would seem you found your style. I'm not an Adobe user but it is the benchmark.

On printing, I have followed some conversations on very large prints and although it can't be disputed more density makes larger easyer. It's amazing what the printers can do making very large prints.

For having the Z8 out only two times I think you did an outstanding job with it.

I see two different things in the two sets of shots you have presented. Overall lighting conditions or maybe your position look much better in the second set. The other is they look much more finished.

I truly believe a D850 would be capable of those shots. That said there is no question the Z8 setup correctly would make getting them easier.

Nice work!

 

[nikonbill]

Afterthought comments (more refection on your topic) - Sometimes I have bad shooting days, I suspect many of us do. These times when I do not get the results I had hoped for and try to figure out why. The times you make a road trip just to get some great wildlife shots (my case) and I can't seem to do anything right. Most often for me it's just an off day, not equipment related.

For the action you are shooting (sports games) you have a get the shot or loose it forever pressure. I don't envy that pressure but surly fully respect the challenge it posses.

Personally I'm always hesitant to suggest new gear to "solve" an issue, you seem to building a justifiable case for you however. I love my D850 and I only have had it for a few months. I wanted to try a full frame camera as much like my D500 as I could get. So I had a somewhat simpler equipment requirement. I am really just starting to see the large advantage of its 46Mp sensor in details, for me I have to learn to "pull" them out in the editing process. I use a bit less automated approach (nothing wrong about your approach) so it is taking time, its something I enjoy. Editing has become an important part of in digital photography, if you would have been a SOOC shooter it would be a no brain er to steer you to the latest Expeed processor.

I do not envy new camera decisions, it took a long while for me to decide and make a purchase. All the best - Bill

 

[mhalweg]

Appreciate the comments. Trying several and then settling on a different focus type for the 2nd game is what I would attribute to the better results (it was the one that is shaped like a portrait oriented piece of paper in the center of the screen; I think there were actually two sizes of it, I used the smaller one).

I don't get why the 3D tracking is recommended for fast moving sports though. The focus point would bounce everywhere (with several people basically standing still or during action). Not sure if it is possible, but I was unable to control where the focus was while in that mode.

I've had the 750 since 2017 so I kind of just want something new as well lol. Or I guess, due to the low resale of the 750 I would end up keeping both and adding another. Loved having a 24-70, 70-200, 200-500mm on my body ready to shoot during these last two games.

I'm basing my inability to print large photos on the photo labs' online software stating that it recommends that i do not print at a particular size due to resolution. Who knows, maybe it would look fine. Just don't like dropping money when I don't know.

 

[nikonbill]

The wide area mode, there are two (large and small) did amaze me when I had my Z50 they were amazingly effective at moving stuff. From what I read in Nikon's info that mode is a hybrid take on "groups" (just my understanding) with more processor based subject recognition.

I understand on recommendations (3D) I have found what works for me is not always what works for others. I love group area mode on the D500 and D850 when there is a clear shot to the moving target, such as birds in flight there is nothing better. I suspect that mode could be picking up the closest point to you, with the extensive action in your scenes it may be missing where you want it be. For me I often shoot small birds deep in trees, for me groups fail me often as it will often go to a branch when I least expect it. Both the D500 and D850 allow programing focus modes into reachable buttons (the Z8 does as well) with just deciding what one to push I have groups, single point, and a dynamic mode available with out moving my eye from the target and using what works pretty quickly.

I'm forever spoiled at having two bodies at hand it is nice, especially for what you are doing. You just have to go and get your Z8 now, nothing wrong with that.

On printing, have a chat with the printer if you can, maybe they can offer more guidance after looking at your files. I would want that guidance before spending the high price on a very large print from anyone. If they are confident maybe they will offer a deal on the first one.

 

[BF Hammer]

I don't get why the 3D tracking is recommended for fast moving sports though. The focus point would bounce everywhere (with several people basically standing still or during action). Not sure if it is possible, but I was unable to control where the focus was while in that mode.

I've had the 750 since 2017 so I kind of just want something new as well lol. Or I guess, due to the low resale of the 750 I would end up keeping both and adding another. Loved having a 24-70, 70-200, 200-500mm on my body ready to shoot during these last two games.

3D tracking is going to follow a subject it has locked on to in depth as well as up-down and side-side. Highly recommended for birds in flight, moving vehicles, and sports that have people moving quickly. Did you have your D750 only using the central focus points or were you using the full grid of focus? Harder to track subjects if they move out of the active focus points. That Z8 had a huge advantage there since it can track focus edge to edge with less limitation. Even a D850 cannot do that.

And even going a step further to address your initial question: a Zf and Z6-III (maybe the Z5-II also) can center the image stabilization to your active focus point instead of just working to the center. More potential to sharpen your photos.

Good luck on weighing your options here. I myself continued to use a D750 for 4 years as I learned and gradually transitioned to mirrorless Z5 (the 2 bodies specs-wise are 90% the same). Although the DSLR stayed on the shelf the last year.

 

[mhalweg]

I was talking about the 3D on the Z8. Used it for maybe 5 min and then started trying others. I have no idea what focus area i was using but the green box was moving all over the screen