The great train mystery!

[C. Hand]

OK, remember, I am a newbie and learning. So I have been trying to go out and shoot as much as possible, so yesterday, my son and I went out to shoot some train track shots, they came out pretty good, but to my joy a train came by. It was a bright sunny day about 2 in the afternoon. The sun was high over my left shoulder, but my shots thank goodness in raw mode came out extremely dark! I had to really use the exposer slide when processing them in Photoshop. I am assuming that the train lights fooled my metering system and I should have taken control of the metering on these shots? If that is the case what metering should I have used and it was moving pretty quick, so I did not have time for a test shot, so how would I have known?

Thanks

D7100
Nikon 55-200mm
F20
Shutter: 1/400
ISO 100

 

[jay_dean]

Shutter speed and aperture are to high lad. 1/4000th is phenomenally high and f20 the same. 1/320 and f8 would have been about there

 

[Woodyg3]

What mode where you using?

 

[C. Hand]

Sorry, should have listed that, I was in Aperture mode so the camera had control of the shutter speed. Even though I was to the side those headlights were bright

 

[WayneF]

The train light could fool the metering, and the first one is a little dark, but my thinking is that the second may be slightly bright.

But you are using raw, so it's trivial to tweak it now. I think relying on raw about surprises is a fine plan (it works). Overexposure is the main thing to avoid.

 

[Daz]

If that is the case what metering should I have used and it was moving pretty quick, so I did not have time for a test shot, so how would I have known?

Spot metering would have been the best, you could have put it anywhere but the lights, it would be good to look at the "Exposure Triangle" and learn how to properly set the camera up in manual.

As you have said you are shooting in RAW which is great, you can always bring the photo back, I try and shoot a stop or 2 darker than I need to so that I can bring the levels up in post, never over expose as you will degrade the image, even if you being the exposure slider down

 

[mauckcg]

Headlights fool the metering. Spot metering and/or manual will help a lot with that. Youtube search expose to the right if your curious what mild over exposure can do for your images in post when you bring the exposure back down.

 

[WayneF]

However, it would be a good idea to learn how to use Spot metering first though. Spot metering is Not for beginners.

Spot metering does NOT make the spot come out correctly exposed. Anything but. Spot metering does serve to isolate the spot from the surrounding background. It could avoid the train light here (if we had any time when the train was coming).

But like any reflective metering, Spot metering makes the spot come out about middle gray (speaking of middle tone, not of gray color). If the spot was selected as one that ought to come out middle gray, then that's right. But for example, the first thing we learn about spot metering on the Caucasian face is that we better open up about one stop to compensate it to come out near about right. For example, Kodak always told us we could meter off the palm of our hand, and then open up one more stop of exposure.

Here is a sample of Spot metering:

Details about Metering Principles

 

[nickt]

As a side note, if you want to play with spot metering, you could program one of your front buttons to turn it on. I use it that way. Then it is a momentary, as needed, instant access tool. You don't want to ever forget that you have spot metering turned on. I have pv programmed for spot and fn for center weighted metering.

 

[Rick M]

Using f20 and spot metering really threw it off. Most of my train shots are f5.6-f8 (depending on focal length) and center weighted or matrix metering. There is a train section in the link to my website below, you can see how those settings worked for me. I do a train show every fall, one of my favorite subjects .

 

[hark]

A rule of thumb is when the scene is bright, go brighter. And when it is dark, go darker. If you are using Matrix metering the next time, use the +/- button on the top to raise or lower your exposure. In this case, you might want to try +.7 to +1.0 to compensate for the headlight.

....never over expose as you will degrade the image, even if you being the exposure slider down

I disagree with this. When shooting RAW, it is possible to overexpose and recover lost highlights providing it isn't overexposed too much. RAW has more latitude than jpeg. When an image is underexposed when shot then the exposure is increased/raised during post processing, you can increase noise especially in the shadows.

 

[Sandpatch]

Headlights fool the metering ...

Agreed. Locomotive headlights are extremely bright. Add in the two alternating "ditch lights" (as seen low on the locomotive frame) and it's a very difficult composition to control. I try to not set up this sort of scene; there's just no time to experiment with settings as the train is upon you. I prefer to step back (which is also safer) and shoot slightly from the side like this:

 

[C. Hand]

Thanks everyone! As I said I am only two months in to learning, but have already read three books and play with my camera daily which is hard with kids and family, but I challenge my self to learn something new about Photography everyday! Not sure what I was thinking using f20, but hey I learned. I need to go and try this again!

 

[Daz]

I disagree with this. When shooting RAW, it is possible to overexpose and recover lost highlights providing it isn't overexposed too much. RAW has more latitude than jpeg.

Well you contradicted yourself I under expose because like you say i its overexposed too much its gone

 

[hark]

Well you contradicted yourself I under expose because like you say i its overexposed too much its gone

No, it is possible to overexpose somewhat and still recover highlights. Some of the drama photos I've taken had white faces with little detail, but because of RAW's latitude, I was able to recover the details quite well. I'm not sure of the exact amount of overexposure that can be recovered...might be at least 1 stop though.

 

[mauckcg]

Thanks everyone! As I said I am only two months in to learning, but have already read three books and play with my camera daily which is hard with kids and family, but I challenge my self to learn something new about Photography everyday! Not sure what I was thinking using f20, but hey I learned. I need to go and try this again!

Youtube is a great resource. There is somebody out there, or several somebodies who can explain this stuff visually to help understand what all is going on.

 

[Daz]

No, it is possible to overexpose somewhat and still recover highlights. Some of the drama photos I've taken had white faces with little detail, but because of RAW's latitude, I was able to recover the details quite well. I'm not sure of the exact amount of overexposure that can be recovered...might be at least 1 stop though.

Underexposing works well for me, different strokes for different folks

 

[Woodyg3]

At 1/4000, f20 and 100 ISO I don't understand how the picture could be anything but pitch black. Using the good old Sunny 16 Rule the exposure should have been about 1/100, f16 at ISO 100. Even with very bright lights, it seems crazy to me that the metering could be that far off. Anyway, this is a great example of why shooting RAW makes so much sense.

 

[WayneF]

At 1/4000, f20 and 100 ISO I don't understand how the picture could be anything but pitch black. Using the good old Sunny 16 Rule the exposure should have been about 1/100, f16 at ISO 100. Even with very bright lights, it seems crazy to me that the metering could be that far off. Anyway, this is a great example of why shooting RAW makes so much sense.

I agree, 1/4000 is not possible. The Exif 1/4000 must be some kind of error. OP said 1/400, which does seem believable. It looks to me that the train is rear lighted, the front in its own shadow, needing more than Sunny 16. Bringing it up brighter washes out the other ambient.