SB-600 and Jessops Flash with Slave Cell

Hello

I use a D7000 with a Nikon SB-600 in Commander mode. All works great.

I was given a mini slave cell which will trigger a flash when it senses another flash. Great I thought. I bought a cheap (£2 cheap in a bargain bucket!) Jessops flash with a cable. No idea what camera it is for, but as I wasn't using it on camera, I wasn't bothered. Today, for the first time, I set the SB-600 up with Commander mode on the D7000. The Jessops flash was using the mini slave cell. A cheap option for a 2nd flash me thinks.

Not likely, says the SB-600. As soon as the Jessops flash is on, the SB-600 has a fit, and does a siren type noise and refuses to play! I'm guessing it's being upset by the camera pop up flash, which by the way I set to do not fire. As soon as the Jessops flash is turned off, all works fine. Confuses me, as the Jessops flash is not connected to the SB-600 or the D7000 - only the mini slave cell.

Bang goes my great money saving idea - unless anyone has any thoughts?

Thanks

I think the answer might be in your statement...

akamii said:

Hello

I use a D7000 with a Nikon SB-600 in Commander mode. All works great.

I was given a mini slave cell which will trigger a flash when it senses another flash. Great I thought. I bought a cheap (£2 cheap in a bargain bucket!) Jessops flash with a cable. No idea what camera it is for, but as I wasn't using it on camera, I wasn't bothered. Today, for the first time, I set the SB-600 up with Commander mode on the D7000. The Jessops flash was using the mini slave cell. A cheap option for a 2nd flash me thinks.

Not likely, says the SB-600. As soon as the Jessops flash is on, the SB-600 has a fit, and does a siren type noise and refuses to play! I'm guessing it's being upset by the camera pop up flash, which by the way I set to do not fire. As soon as the Jessops flash is turned off, all works fine. Confuses me, as the Jessops flash is not connected to the SB-600 or the D7000 - only the mini slave cell.

Bang goes my great money saving idea - unless anyone has any thoughts?

Thanks

Click to expand...

You simply cannot use any simple slave type flash with commander system. Period. The commander absolutely requires commander-compatible flash units.

The commander flashes a few signals before the shutter opens. These are signals to request TTL preflash from the remotes, and to set TTL power level, or to set Manual mode power level. It does this for groups A and B sequentially, unless one group is turned off. But there is a lot of flashing.

The SB-600 and other commander-compatible models are designed to understand all of this.

The simple slave flash never heard of a commander, and its slave will flash at these early signals, before the shutter opens. Normally the problem is that the slave simply cannot contribute to the picture lighting in this situation, but the flash from the slave can mix with the TTL preflash, and seriously confuse the camera trying to meter the preflash.

I have not heard of the situation where the SB-600 simply goes crazy and quits, but regardless, there simply is no case when the simple slave can work right with the commander system. Get rid of it. You instead need another SB-600 type of flash, designed for the Commander.

Or otherwise, turn off the commander, and go to an all-manual flash system - genuine manual flash in all units, with the commander turned off. The SB-600 in its menu mode M instead of Remote. Then you have to figure some way to trigger it.

Thank you WayneF Just thinking out loud then, I'm guessing if I want to use the slave, I need to put the SB-600 on a SC-29 sync cable? That I believe will still give me TTL if needed, or I could set the flash to manual. The SB-600 flash would then fire the Jessops connected with the mini slave cell. The other option would be to purchase another Nikon speedlight - which I don't really think I can justify the cost at the moment. Hey ho. There had to be a catch!

Sorry, no.

The SB-600 does work (and can do TTL) on the SC-28 cord... It is simply a hot shoe extension cord. However the practical length is only maybe four feet, since if stretched longer, the coil tension tends to tip over the light stand.

However, the simple optical slave still cannot be triggered by TTL flashes either. TTL first involves a low level preflash. The camera meters this preflash, and determines a proper final flash level, and programs the flash power level, which when the shutter opens, then fires at this programmed level.

The point is, the TTL preflash will also trigger the simple slave too early, so if TTL is used for the trigger, the slave will fire and expend itself before the shutter opens. Same as the Commander does.

A few modern flashes (typically Yongnou and Neewer brands) have two slave modes for manual flash, the regular simple slave called S1 mode, and also a S2 mode designed to ignore TTL preflash, to allow it to work with simple cameras that do not have a manual flash mode. This mode does NOT include the Nikon brand, and unlikely in the older flash too.

Otherwise, we simply have to chose what we are doing... either use the Commander system as it is designed, or to use manual flash as it is designed, but mixing systems is not going to work.

If you want multiple remote TTL flashes, the answer is to use the commander with commander-compatible flashes, like SB-600, SB-700, SB-800, SB-900. Also, the $100 class Yongnuo YN-565EX can do this too, very well.

Or you can use ALL manual mode flashes (every flash involved, and no commander) then you can trigger one some other way, and then use simple optical slaves for the rest. Such a way includes a SC-28 cord, or a PC sync cord, or a radio trigger. The simple optical trigger will work with those, if all flashes involved are in Manual flash mode.

It is a choice. We simply have to chose one, one and only one system.

Thanks once again, WayneF. I'm really not doing very well here, am I!

So, just to make sure I've got all my facts right. My choices are:

1. SC-28 cord on the SB-600 and the flash used in manual only, which will cancel the TTL preflashes and then the slave will work, but the length of the cable will be an issue.
2. Save up and buy the Yongnuo YN-565EX, which I have to say I did not know that was compatible with the Commander system. I'll have to do some research and find out how much in the UK.
3. Tell my husband I want another Nikon flash - then run and hide!!!

At the moment, my reasons for using a 2nd flash are few and far between. I bought the SB-600 quite a few years ago when I had my D70 and rarely used it. I then gave up photography for a few years until last year when a friend bought a camera (not Nikon) and we do photoshoots together. Her camera will happily use the slave as at present she doesn't have a dedicated flash. She has a small studio, so we've been playing with lighting and flash.

I've certainly learned something here. Basically I've wasted £2 but saved lots of time trying to get it to work, for which I am very grateful. This is something no amount of books would have told me.

Now, is it too early to start a Christmas list? Lol

akamii said:

Thanks once again, WayneF. I'm really not doing very well here, am I!

So, just to make sure I've got all my facts right. My choices are:

1. SC-28 cord on the SB-600 and the flash used in manual only, which will cancel the TTL preflashes and then the slave will work, but the length of the cable will be an issue.

Click to expand...

Yes, exactly. The Jessops flash is also manual mode you know. At least in any slave mode. I am not familiar with the Jessops flash, but (if it still works) it is not wasted if you use manual flash. Manual flash is generally preferred for fixed studio use, because it allows much greater control (assuming we have a hand held flash meter so we can make it do the right thing).
Where TTL is automatic, and good for more dynamic situations, like chasing young kids around.

I think the SC-28 cord original design was to allow holding flash at arms length to get it off camera, but it also can work well for a flash in an umbrella beside the camera. And it only stretches to maybe eight feet, but if using the longer lengths, you will need some way to securely tie down both flash and camera tripod, else the tight coil tension tends to tip them over. There are other non-Nikon brands that are longer.

2. Save up and buy the Yongnuo YN-565EX, which I have to say I did not know that was compatible with the Commander system. I'll have to do some research and find out how much in the UK.

Click to expand...

See Review of the Yongnuo YN565EX Speedlight . My opinion is there is much more there than other sources.

In regard to general use of the commander, see Using the Nikon CLS Remote Wireless Flash System
There is more discussion of the Manual vs Commander incompatibility towards the end, in section called Summary.

The internal flash commander can individually control only two remote flashes, but two can do a lot. It is a very fast point&shoot setup.
Whereas, manual flash is tedious and slow, but allows us to do exactly what we want do to (instead of fight the automation).

3. Tell my husband I want another Nikon flash - then run and hide!!!

Click to expand...

Yeah, I know, the Nikons certainly are expensive. Maybe a used price is easier (has to be SB-600, 700, 800, 900, 910).
And this is what makes the Yongnuo YN565EX so amazing, more power than the SB-600 or SB-700, for about 1/3 the price. And really, the Yongnuo YN565EX is surprisingly good for either hot shoe TTL, or for remote use with Commander. It does perform very well, but it is no Nikon though, and the two things I really don't like are:
1. The Ready LED does not warn when the power available was insufficient for the metered scene.
2. Its red focus assist pattern always flashes once per second in slave remote use. It has a menu to disable it on hot shoe, but it does not seem to affect slave use.
I imagine both of these were supposed to be different, but not on my copy.

But... did I mention the price? 1/3 the price of a SB-700 available today.