"solved" Spots on image NOT DUST OR OIL!

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Englischdude

Senior Member
So, it seems my D80 was not so much of a bargain after all! I purchased it used a few weeks ago in mint condition and only 9000 shutter Releases from a respectable guy hier in Austria. As it is winter here the light conditions have been relatively low, but now I am in Abu Dhabi on a Business trip and have used smaller apertures. I have noticed a Cluster of dots in the Image which I initially put down to sensor contamination. I blew, no Change, i dry wiped the sensor, no Change, I wet wiped the sensor, no Change, I wet wiped the sensor again, no Change! Any idea what this could be? I have found a couple of Posts on other Forums about this but no fixed cause as of yet. WOuld appreciate your thoughts and beware D80 buyers! Picture below. The spots become progressively more visible at apertures of f13 and smaller.....
17128973oc.jpg
 
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Brian

Senior Member
Re: Spots on image NOT DUST OR OIL!

Can you visually inspect the sensor using a magnifying glass?

Oil left on glass can cause coating damage, and can etch the glass.

Fungus can grow on glass, and emit acid, which etches the coating and the glass.

As it is more visible when closed down, the spots should be on the surface as you look at it.
 
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Englischdude

Senior Member
Re: Spots on image NOT DUST OR OIL!

I cannot see any contamination on the surface of the sensor at all, and no irregularities of any Kind when observing the sensor from various angles. The problem is the same regardless which lens I use. A quick search on the web has revealed others also having this Problem.
 
BackdoorArts

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
Re: Spots on image NOT DUST OR OIL!

This is purely a guess, but the "sensor" you're cleaning is actually a sandwich of filters, with the actual sensor located behind them. Perhaps moisture got inside the filter stack, possibly after using the camera in very wet/humid conditions, or maybe after bringing it in from extreme cold into warm temperatures? If so, it can be repaired, but it's going to cost you to have a pro do it.
 
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BackdoorArts

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
Re: Spots on image NOT DUST OR OIL!

As I look at it I'm more and more convinced that this is what it might be. It's the same pattern I see in storm windows made up of layers of glass, where moisture somehow got inside the stack and will reappear in humid conditions, but otherwise exhibits only the faintest of spots where the moisture was but evaporated.
 
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Englischdude

Senior Member
Re: Spots on image NOT DUST OR OIL!

BackdoorHippie said:
As I look at it I'm more and more convinced that this is what it might be. It's the same pattern I see in storm windows made up of layers of glass, where moisture somehow got inside the stack and will reappear in humid conditions, but otherwise exhibits only the faintest of spots where the moisture was but evaporated.
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assuming that this is correct, I must add that the Cluster of spots is only at the centre of the Image. moisture would come in from the edges correct so would such dots not start at the edges of the image?
 
hark

hark

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
Contributor
Re: Spots on image NOT DUST OR OIL!

What liquid did you use to wet clean the sensor? Was it Eclipse or something else?
 
BackdoorArts

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
Re: Spots on image NOT DUST OR OIL!

Englischdude said:
assuming that this is correct, I must add that the Cluster of spots is only at the centre of the Image. moisture would come in from the edges correct so would such dots not start at the edges of the image?
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That's why I'm drawing the parallel to a window pane - while moisture is obviously drawn in from the edges it seems to collect in the center where there may me the most room to expand due to resistance/pressure being lowest in the center of the sheet than at the edges. In other words, if you take two flat pieces of anything and press them together at the edges, the center point would be where forces keeping them together would be weakest.

Again, just a theory based on what I'm seeing with no real world experience seeing it in a camera. Take it to a shop and have them take a hard look at it.
 
hark

hark

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Staff member
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Re: Spots on image NOT DUST OR OIL!

Englischdude said:
I used Green Clean swabs ready prepared.
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Hmm.... I had problems with spots on my D600's sensor, and after having it unsuccessfully repaired by Nikon 3 times, they refunded me for the body. The main problem was sensor spots. Your spots don't look the same though. Yours appear to be slightly opaque. My spots were much smaller, darker, and not opaque, and nothing I used could remove them.

After looking up info on Green Clean, I think that is part of Visible Dust's line of products. I haven't used that brand but have heard good things about it. If the Green Clean swabs weren't able to remove the spots, then you might have to consider having the sensor looked at professionally. Or give the Eclipse solution a try. Sorry--wish I could be of more help.
 
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JohnFrench

Senior Member
Re: Spots on image NOT DUST OR OIL!

My first reaction on seeing the photo of the issue before reading all the posts was, "Looks like dried condensation". Same as I have on one of my living room windows that has a "blown" seal. I think you may have zeroed in on the issue. What if you tried to pack it in a closed box of dessicant for a time to try to absorb the moisture out?
 
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PapaST

Senior Member
Re: Spots on image NOT DUST OR OIL!

BackDoorHippie's theory seems to make the most sense to me. The pattern of dots (edges clear with center contaminated with dots conspicuously spaced out) reminds me of moisture getting in and covering the entire sensor. As the moisture dissipates it is able to escape from the edges (therefore clear), while the center dots are the remnants of moisture drying and not being able to escape. The dots are spaced in a way that resembles moisture drying.

Good luck with that. I hate to see this happen on a "new" purchase.
 
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Englischdude

Senior Member
Re: Spots on image NOT DUST OR OIL!

OK chaps, thanks for your Feedback. I have seen a few Posts on other Forums of People which have had the same Problem. I called two independant NIKON Service centres today and noone had heard of this Problem before. As this camera is my standby, and the cost of sending in would be probably more than the Thing is worth, I would be happy to Play Guinea pig. What do you think about packing a couple of small bags of silica gel into the Body, sealing with the cap and leaving it for a week to see if that absords the moisture out? Or anyone got any other suggestions?
 
BackdoorArts

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
Re: Spots on image NOT DUST OR OIL!

I think the moisture that caused the issue, if it's what I suspect, has long since gone away and all you're left with are the spots the moisture left behind. No amount of desiccant will remove dried spots, and if there was moisture still trapped I would assume you would be able to see that with a sensor loupe. That said, provided you don't lay the bags right on the sensor I imagine it wouldn't hurt to try. Worst case you're in the same spot.
 
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Englischdude

Senior Member
Re: Spots on image NOT DUST OR OIL!

BackdoorHippie said:
I think the moisture that caused the issue, if it's what I suspect, has long since gone away and all you're left with are the spots the moisture left behind. No amount of desiccant will remove dried spots, and if there was moisture still trapped I would assume you would be able to see that with a sensor loupe. That said, provided you don't lay the bags right on the sensor I imagine it wouldn't hurt to try. Worst case you're in the same spot.
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Ok. Just got back from my trip. Have packed the body with silicagel and will leave it for a few days. If that does not work what are your thoughts to removing the aa filter, cleaning the rear side and sensor surface and reassembling? There are many detailed and good instructions floating around on the web ob how to convert a d80 to ir, so disassembly should be a breeze.
 
BackdoorArts

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
Re: Spots on image NOT DUST OR OIL!

I'm not a tinkerer, so if you're going in then all I can wish you is good luck. I would recommend having someone take a closer look before you open her up, just to confirm what I think I'm seeing.
 
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Dave_W

The Dude
Re: Spots on image NOT DUST OR OIL!

I know you say it's not oil but I think you've come to that conclusion too quickly. For one, not all cleaning solutions are capable of removing oil very easily, especially old and dried oil. Moreover, the fact you can't see them when looking thru a loupe is consistent with my experiences. I've never been able to see the dust on my OLPF even when I knew it was there.

So before you do anything drastic, convince yourself that it's not old dried oil by cleaning it with a solution capable of dissolving oil. Eclipse would work on fresh oil, being methanol, but wouldn't be so good on dried oil. Instead, I would use this cleanser - Smear Away. Liquid cleaner for sensor. and do the cleaning routine at least 3x and I'll give you odds that by the 3rd clean those spots will be gone.
 
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Englischdude

Senior Member
Re: Spots on image NOT DUST OR OIL!

Dave_W said:
I know you say it's not oil but I think you've come to that conclusion too quickly. For one, not all cleaning solutions are capable of removing oil very easily, especially old and dried oil. Moreover, the fact you can't see them when looking thru a loupe is consistent with my experiences. I've never been able to see the dust on my OLPF even when I knew it was there.

So before you do anything drastic, convince yourself that it's not old dried oil by cleaning it with a solution capable of dissolving oil. Eclipse would work on fresh oil, being methanol, but wouldn't be so good on dried oil. Instead, I would use this cleanser - Smear Away. Liquid cleaner for sensor. and do the cleaning routine at least 3x and I'll give you odds that by the 3rd clean those spots will be gone.
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Thanks, im willing to try anything before ripping the camera to bits. Is there a home-made solution of some kind of alchohol which you could recommend for cleaning stubborn stains? I live in europe and I am not too sure of the availability of smear away here.

Also, it may be true that the green clean swabs are not the best solution for stubborn dried out oil stains, but after cleaning a number of times I would expect to see a little difference in the stains if thats what they are, either fainter or slightly smeared.
 
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Ruidoso Bill

Senior Member
Re: Spots on image NOT DUST OR OIL!

Are you using a Loupe to inspect the sensor? It just looks like a dirty sensor. When you said you dry wiped, how?

Without using a loupe I can't tell what I am doing on mine. With a loupe you should be able to tell if it's on the surface.
 
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Englischdude

Senior Member
Re: Spots on image NOT DUST OR OIL!

WJYPhoto said:
Are you using a Loupe to inspect the sensor? It just looks like a dirty sensor. When you said you dry wiped, how?

Without using a loupe I can't tell what I am doing on mine. With a loupe you should be able to tell if it's on the surface.
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I have not got a purpose made loupe, rather use a magnifying glass. has always worked well for me in the past. I used the grenn clean dry wipes for dry cleaning, after using the blower of course, that did not work, so then repeated the cleaning process about another 3 times using forst wet, then dry swabs. Have ordered a "sensorwand" with swabs, will get some 99.9% isopropyl alchohol from the chemist and see if that does the trick.
 
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