Newbie's (blackstar) Moon Shot questions and helps

blackstar

Senior Member
Hi,

I am a new owner of Nikon D3500 two lenses kit. Since there is no D3500 group, here at D3400 group I post my newbie's questions:
1. The kit came with 2 lenses: 18-55mm and 70-300mm. Which lense is better to use for shooting night sky (star sky)?
2. When set M mode to shoot night sky, how do I focus to the stars? (how to use focus ring to make it "infinity"?)

Thanks for answering and helping my newbie's questions.
 

WayneF

Senior Member
You probably will want a wide view for like the Milky way, so 18 mm is likely appropriate.

Stars will require a long exposure (perhaps ISO 3200 wide open at f/3.5 for maybe 30 seconds. Experiment...

So a problem is that such long exposures show the Earths rotation, leaving star trails instead of dots, but the wide 18 mm minimizes this, not to the very sharpest dot, but possibly very acceptable in a normal size viewing image.

The longer lens would greatly magnify this rotation movement. The longest lens could be useful for zooming on a small object, like for example the Andromeda galaxy, but then rotation blur will be a huge problem. Then that motion really needs a tracking polar mount, like for telescopes.

My site has a calculator for this rotation blur, at https://www.scantips.com/lights/stars.html

The infinity mark on the lens is probably not precisely at infinity, lenses today often have a little intentional overshoot. You could focus it at infinity on some land object in the daylight, and leave it there for the night work, however any little touch would move it (so it does seem doomed).

What I do is to use live view on the stars at the site. At first, you see nothing (too dim) but as you zoom in greatly (zoom in on the live view preview, definitely NOT meaning to zoom the wide lens), and as you move focus to be at infinity, the brightest stars begin to show, and of course, the moon is a good target too. You can find some bright star to focus on. All the stars are at infinity, there will be no focus difference. The smallest brightest focused star dot image seen in live view is the correct focus. Then of course put the camera in Manual focus mode so it won't change, but be careful not to touch it again.
 

blackstar

Senior Member
Hi Wayne,

Thanks so much for your reply with so helpful and valuable (to me) info. I see now the key is to choose one with wider aperture (f/3.5 instead of f/4.0) for collecting more light.

As for focusing infinity, I am still in the cloud... I tried using (turning) the focus ring to focus some object with some success, but it (focus ring) seems have no end of turning. I assume it would be turned to an end point that would indicate "infinity". Probably this is not the way to focus infinity? According to the way you described, I need to study "zoom in on live view preview" first, then see if I can try and make it. Thank you so much. Oh, still another dumb question: which way to turn (counter clockwise or clockwise when you are behind camera to turn the ring) to focus farther? And according to your experience, about how many turns (focus ring) you can focus night stars?

Appreciatively,
 

cwgrizz

Senior Member
Challenge Team
Hi Wayne,

Thanks so much for your reply with so helpful and valuable (to me) info. I see now the key is to choose one with wider aperture (f/3.5 instead of f/4.0) for collecting more light.

As for focusing infinity, I am still in the cloud... I tried using (turning) the focus ring to focus some object with some success, but it (focus ring) seems have no end of turning. I assume it would be turned to an end point that would indicate "infinity". Probably this is not the way to focus infinity? According to the way you described, I need to study "zoom in on live view preview" first, then see if I can try and make it. Thank you so much. Oh, still another dumb question: which way to turn (counter clockwise or clockwise when you are behind camera to turn the ring) to focus farther? And according to your experience, about how many turns (focus ring) you can focus night stars?

Appreciatively,

Wayne gave you some good advice. I don't have or have not seen the camera you are using, but I will try to clarify the focus for you. Turn your camera on to "Live View" Make sure you have the camera set to manual focus. Then hit the + to zoom in on the live view. As the larger white stars or moon come into view, turn the focus ring to see the clearest picture you can. Do it slow as live view is not always instant. When you have the clearest, most in focus view you are there. It is not a count of turns, etc on the focus ring, just moving it to the best focus as viewed in live view. Another thing I thought of is to set the camera shutter to timer mode to delay the shutter trip by 6-10 seconds or so. This avoids any chance of vibration from pushing the shutter button.
 

Bikerbrent

Senior Member
Welcome aboard. Enjoy the ride.
We look forward to seeing more posts and samples of your work.

If you are really into astronomy and have an advanced telescope, you can mount the camera to the telescope in several different ways and use the telescope drive to track the heavens.

1. You can piggyback the camera and lens on the telescope.
2. You can get an adapter and mount the camera without a lens in place of the eyepiece. The telescope then becomes a large lens for the camera.
3. With a different adapter, you can mount the camera behind the eyepiece and use the telescope, eyepiece combination for really high magnification.

A good book on astrophotography would be your best first investment.
 

blackstar

Senior Member
Wow! Never thought I would get so much help, advice, hint and sharing info I need from so many wonderful people so quickly by joining this forum. You all gave me the light to start my new hobby with great excitement and hope in enjoyable shoot out. Now I need time to digest all the good info you all provided, verify with Manual, and do some practices. Pardon me for not feedback instantly, but will post back for my learning progress (hopefully) and possibly with more questions.

Thank you guys,
 

Dawg Pics

Senior Member
Stick around and post some images. This is a very helpful community, low in drama. Lots of experience. I am not quite a newb any longer, but I learn new things all the time here on Nikonites. :D
 

Danno

Senior Member
Welcome to the forum. It is a group low on drama and quick to help. I will warn you of only one thing this "hobby" is addictive... not in a bad way post processing was the thing that really got me going. Enjoy!
 

blackstar

Senior Member
Hi, I am back after bit while of more study and practice to show some tiny progress and ask more questions. I was kind of overwhelmed by the big Manual book for so many confusing and unclear (if may say) instructions, especially on how to determine and set right settings. So spent lot time of trial and error... and still scratch head afterward! AW, set out a procedure for shooting night (star) sky: 1. set "M" mode, 2. select "right" speed, apture, and ISO (still have auto iso control on), 3. make "infinity" focus on stars, 4. take shot. (please correct, revise, or add any step or substep) Then I proceeded to practice at non-ideal places, timing, and objects... all still failed in step3. I found all those related articles for help still lack some deep basic details. From most documents and reports I read state that in "M" mode, autofocus do not work. True or not, "focus" setting still has to be changed to "MF" in "M" mode. It's a simple thing for succeeding step3, but took long time and cracking head to figure. We got all bad weather around here (raining) now, so no chance for any night sky shooting practice. Somehow I managed to take this simulated shot in my office room with all light off except some e-devices. The object is the tiny light on a printer machine from some far distance away. I had been able to manually focus on it using the magnifier on the live screen. The shot file is jpeg and I uncarefully deleted it from memory disk after downloaded to computer, so unable to review the settings. I know it's dumb picture to show, but hopefully it's my tiny step to start.

My other question: How do I bring up the "information display" (the one with three circles for speed, apture, iso) in Live view instantly when I want? I need it in Live view screen, not in viewfinder (I am not there yet). Some time it show up on screen when I don't need it. I tried both "i" and "info" buttons with no success. Thanks for help.
Oop, Tried upload my file, but it failed! ???
 

Dawg Pics

Senior Member
I think you need 10 posts in order to attach an image.

Shooting mode "M" is just for changing shutter speed, and aperture manually. You have to change the focus mode to manual focus in order to use the focus ring on the lens. Yes, it takes a little practice to get sharp focus using manual focus. A small light in a room is a good way to practice. When you get some good weather, try to focus on Venus or whatever bright star shows up first at twilight. That would be easier than trying to do it on a faint star in the dark. At least, that is what I would do to practice. Just use live view and zoom in. You need a tripod to do this.

When you are in Live View, the display for the settings will be on the border of the monitor. You can't get the full display that you are talking about unless you take it out of live view.

If you are shooting star images, then you need take the camera out of auto ISO. Your lens isn't all that fast, meaning it only goes to F3.5, and you probably need to shoot with a smaller aperture than f3.5 for best sharpness. As a result, your ISO setting will likely be up kind of high. It will be trial and error. You can start with ISO 6400 and set the shutter speed to stay open for no more than 20 seconds and see how it looks. Then you adjust from there.

You just need to keep taking images until you find what works for you in your shooting conditions. Light pollution and turbulence in the atmosphere will affect your images.
 

blackstar

Senior Member
Thanks, Dawg. Really appreciate your reply and help. Ok, now I am deep in setting "water"... First, set in "M" mode - set focus mode "MF" - set auto ISO off - manually set speed, aperture, and iso - then turn live view and surprisingly see shutter speed won't fix as set and it shows that there is a slow limit which is much faster than I set... what's the catch here?

Next, turn to "Auto" Mode and reset focus mode to autofocus, but auto iso stay off. The camera seems back to control iso, speed, and aperture automatically although auto iso is left as off. If this is true, then just leave auto iso as off for the sake of convenience?
 

Marilynne

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
Hi Marilynne,

May I ask why my post was moderated? And how come I couldn't upload an image (it said upload failed)? Thanks

I have no idea why it was moderated. I didn't see anything in it that would have triggered that.

Did you try to upload a photo in that post? That could have been the reason.
 

blackstar

Senior Member
Yeah, I did try to upload a photo, but it failed (as Dawg said I haven't written 10 posts yet?) Will be there hoefully soon. Thanks
 
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