Z50 and Topaz denoise-AI

mikew_RIP

Senior Member
The first image is the full file with just my normal PP

DSC_2843.jpg


The same file but with a crop and Topaz after my normal PP

DSC_2842topaz.jpg
 

hark

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
Contributor
Yes this is how it started out of the camera, i shoot raw and jpeg this is the jpeg, with only the in-camera edits i have set, you will have to click it if i try it freezes up the post

I can't speak for Fish, but after reading his comment, I noticed the file numbers of the 2 images are consecutive - 2842 and 2843. That might be why he asked if they are the same image? :confused:
 

mikew_RIP

Senior Member
I can't speak for Fish, but after reading his comment, I noticed the file numbers of the 2 images are consecutive - 2842 and 2843. That might be why he asked if they are the same image? :confused:

The 2842 will be the jpeg 2843 raw, it would have been a burst of 3 shots so they would all be the same
 

Rick M

Senior Member
In looking at the breast of the bird, the first looks darker with less detail and the second lighter with a bit more feather detail. Could that be the difference between Jpeg and Raw or is it the Denoise?
 

mikew_RIP

Senior Member
In looking at the breast of the bird, the first looks darker with less detail and the second lighter with a bit more feather detail. Could that be the difference between Jpeg and Raw or is it the Denoise?

The two in the first post should be from raw, the one on its own jpeg
 

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
I can't speak for Fish, but after reading his comment, I noticed the file numbers of the 2 images are consecutive - 2842 and 2843. That might be why he asked if they are the same image? :confused:
There's that, but I also notice some distinct differences in the background. Look just below and to the right of the bird's beak. There is a "splotch" of green in the first image that is not present in the second image. From that green splotch, continue down and to the right just a little bit more... There are a couple of brown streaks in the water that parallel one another in the first shot that are not present in the second image.
 

mikew_RIP

Senior Member
How did you like the results? More effective than just LR?

I never use light room only photoshop, at the moment from only doing stupid high iso shots i cant see its worth the money, i have 30 days to play so will at some point give it a go with 10/15000 iso shots.
 

hark

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
Contributor
How did you like the results? More effective than just LR?

Rick, did you see this post by Jake showing how much detail can be brought back with Topaz AI? Here's the link to the thread as well as Jake's actual post. This is an impressive demonstration.

https://nikonites.com/telephoto/44079-what-your-thoughts.html#post723899

So a couple of things. First, you're wide open at f6.7 so if it's gonna be soft with the 1.7x it's going to be there. But these really aren't that bad. I was using the 1.7x on rare occasion with the 300mm but I just wasn't crazy about the details I'd lose so if I put a TC on it would be the 1.4x (it's a moot point now that I have the 500mm f5.6).

With that said, as I mentioned in another thread I've fallen hard for a trio of Topaz AI filters - DeNoise, Sharpen, and Adjust. I use them in that order instead of using the sharpening and denoise in ACR. I only use Sharpen AI in cases where I'm trying to save a photo that's almost sharp (DeNoise has a very good sharpening function). While these photos are more than acceptably sharp I suspect they could benefit from them - as could some of the 1.7x shots I've never processed. It has 3 different sharpening modes: Sharpen, Focus, Stabilize. The first is not much better than what you get in ACR or Topaz DeNoise AI and I don't use it often as the filter can be very slow (turn the auto preview off and just refresh as needed). But the other two do a more than good job of salvaging stuff that's just a bit soft.

Here's a shot taken of a pair of mating Red Tailed Hawks I took from my Mom's front stoop. This is a 100% crop with the 500mm so they were a little too far off to really get. The bottom is straight out of camera (I've darkened it slightly so you can see the line) and the top is after applying all 3 filters. It's not "great", but it's something I could do a small print of or share online with a little more work.

329441-what-your-thoughts-j55_9088-edit-copy.jpg
 

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
Yes, but it appears the Sharpen package is replaced by Denoise and not as good?

There's actually 3 AI tools that impact Sharpening. Denoise AI is generally sufficient to bring a clear, in focus image into maximum sharpness. Sharpen AI is available as well and while it's not magic I have used it to take soft images (either slightly missed focus, just a soft lens, or even with slight movement) and make them usable. Then there's Adjust AI which has sections for clarity, detail, and sharpening, and while I would not use it purely for sharpening it is really good at bringing out details without boosting noise - but it takes some playing with to understand how the detail and boost sliders interact (you almost need to use them in opposite directions - add small details, decrease the associated boost).

You do not need Sharpen AI if your images are generally in focus, Denoise AI is enough in my experience, particularly when going to Adjust AI next. Sharpen AI is a dog on CPU, so if you need it make sure you have nothing else open. And for both Denoise and Sharpen make sure you open them up first with no image and turn off the Auto Preview switch as you can wind up waiting minutes every time you nudge a slider, though Sharpen is far worse.

My workflow has basically become:
  1. Use Lightroom to crop and straighten, applying lens profile correction and white balance.
  2. Denoise AI to remove noise and apply sharpening (I may also play with the auto light correction)
  3. Add Levels and or Curves adjustment layer if necessary. If I need to remove anything from the frame it happens here, after Denoise, not before it.
  4. Sharpen AI only if I'm trying to save an image
  5. Adjust AI to further clarify and sharpen
  6. Camera Raw Filter where I'll do all the lighting adjustments I used to do in Lightroom ahead of time. Denoise is most effective when you haven't messed with the light.

From there then it's maybe dodge/burn and whatever other local tweaks I want to apply. I've almost abandoned NiK tools entirely unless I'm going B&W. I'm really impressed with them.

Hey, and if any of you wind up buying it you can save an additional 15% if you use this link to get there (and yes, I get credit for the referral).
 
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mikew_RIP

Senior Member
There's that, but I also notice some distinct differences in the background. Look just below and to the right of the bird's beak. There is a "splotch" of green in the first image that is not present in the second image. From that green splotch, continue down and to the right just a little bit more... There are a couple of brown streaks in the water that parallel one another in the first shot that are not present in the second image.

They are taken from this burst and processed individually,as you can see even if i cocked up and selected the wrong one it wouldn't matter

Capturemm.JPG
 

Rick M

Senior Member
There's actually 3 AI tools that impact Sharpening. Denoise AI is generally sufficient to bring a clear, in focus image into maximum sharpness. Sharpen AI is available as well and while it's not magic I have used it to take soft images (either slightly missed focus, just a soft lens, or even with slight movement) and make them usable. Then there's Adjust AI which has sections for clarity, detail, and sharpening, and while I would not use it purely for sharpening it is really good at bringing out details without boosting noise - but it takes some playing with to understand how the detail and boost sliders interact (you almost need to use them in opposite directions - add small details, decrease the associated boost).

You do not need Sharpen AI if your images are generally in focus, Denoise AI is enough in my experience, particularly when going to Adjust AI next. Sharpen AI is a dog on CPU, so if you need it make sure you have nothing else open. And for both Denoise and Sharpen make sure you open them up first with no image and turn off the Auto Preview switch as you can wind up waiting minutes every time you nudge a slider, though Sharpen is far worse.

My workflow has basically become:
  1. Use Lightroom to crop and straighten, applying lens profile correction and white balance.
  2. Denoise AI to remove noise and apply sharpening (I may also play with the auto light correction)
  3. Add Levels and or Curves adjustment layer if necessary. If I need to remove anything from the frame it happens here, after Denoise, not before it.
  4. Sharpen AI only if I'm trying to save an image
  5. Adjust AI to further clarify and sharpen
  6. Camera Raw Filter where I'll do all the lighting adjustments I used to do in Lightroom ahead of time. Denoise is most effective when you haven't messed with the light.

From there then it's maybe dodge/burn and whatever other local tweaks I want to apply. I've almost abandoned NiK tools entirely unless I'm going B&W. I'm really impressed with them.

Hey, and if any of you wind up buying it you can save an additional 15% if you use this link to get there (and yes, I get credit for the referral).

Thank you for the in-depth explanation Jake, appreciated.
 

Woodyg3

Senior Member
Contributor
My computer's graphics processor does not have enough memory to use Topaz, unfortunately. I haven't decided whether to hotrod my current computer with new GP, Hard Drive and RAM, or get a new computer. Either way it's more money than I can really afford. Poor me!!! :)
 

Whiskeyman

Senior Member
My computer's graphics processor does not have enough memory to use Topaz, unfortunately. I haven't decided whether to hotrod my current computer with new GP, Hard Drive and RAM, or get a new computer. Either way it's more money than I can really afford. Poor me!!! :)

What kind of computer are you using, Woody?

WM
 
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