BIF & Tracking question

hark

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I set up all my bodies for U1 being BBF, Aperture Priority, AF-C, single point focus, and focus priority (instead of release priority). Today I worked on panning by following the birds. My focus point didn't move. As the birds flew, at times I couldn't keep the focus point on them. Is the focus point supposed to move? Or do I need to enable 3D tracking? And do you suggest using multiple focus points, group, or dynamic?

Here are a couple from this afternoon. Since the sensor on my D750 is so much better than my D7100, I opted to take that body with my 300mm and 1.4x teleconverter. Both images have some significant crop as a result of using FX.

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BackdoorArts

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It doesn't work with single point focus...


While technically correct this can be confusing because Dynamic Area focus only shows you a single focus point and it may appear in the viewfinder to be the same thing. What you want to use is Dynamic Area Focus which defines the number of points around the single point where the subject can "wander" in the viewfinder before the camera locks on something else. You want to set the area so it's as large as you need to keep the initial focus point in focus as you move with the subject. For BIF on my D500 (amazing focus system) I generally set the number of focus points to either 72 or the full focus area which runs the entire screen from L to R. On the D750 you're focus area is comparatively smaller so I would use D51 which will track the focus point throughout the full area as you shoot.

There are some other tracking/focus lock settings that you'll need to play with to find what works best for you. Steve Perry has a great video on focus modes for Nikon cameras which has likely been linked here a bunch of times, but it's worthwhile enough that I'm happy to link it again.

 

nickt

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I've been on single point with bbf for quite awhile now. Its tough to keep that single point on a moving bird. I haven't done it too much. Just recently set up a U to try the dynamic modes with focus priority. No birds yet to try. The reason I set up a U is because on the d7100/d7200, the af-c focus priority is over-ridden when using the back button for af-on. So my U puts me back to shutter button mode so I can use af-c with focus priority.
Test your d750 to see how it behaves with focus vs release priority in bbf. My old d7000 did let me choose af-c w/focus priority while using bbf. The 71 and 72 override the priority and give me release no matter what if using bbf.
 

hark

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It doesn't work with single point focus...

Lol--wise guy! ;) Just kidding. I found that out which is why I asked. :loyal:

While technically correct this can be confusing because Dynamic Area focus only shows you a single focus point and it may appear in the viewfinder to be the same thing. What you want to use is Dynamic Area Focus which defines the number of points around the single point where the subject can "wander" in the viewfinder before the camera locks on something else....

Ahh...so setting it with dynamic still shows the single point. Okay, now everything is starting to make sense. I actually watched this Steve Perry video yesterday before I asked but was still confused as to which setting works best. I guess when hearing there are multiple focus points, I only think about the group of points that all show up.

I remembered seeing something in his video where the focus point moved, but it didn't register in my head. I've only ever used single point focus since switching to a DSLR so don't have experience with the other types of AF. Thanks for the explanation, Jake. :cool:
 

hark

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I've been on single point with bbf for quite awhile now. Its tough to keep that single point on a moving bird. I haven't done it too much. Just recently set up a U to try the dynamic modes with focus priority. No birds yet to try. The reason I set up a U is because on the d7100/d7200, the af-c focus priority is over-ridden when using the back button for af-on. So my U puts me back to shutter button mode so I can use af-c with focus priority.
Test your d750 to see how it behaves with focus vs release priority in bbf. My old d7000 did let me choose af-c w/focus priority while using bbf. The 71 and 72 override the priority and give me release no matter what if using bbf.

I'll have to look into that, Nick. I thought I remembered seeing AF-C somewhere, somehow on the top display when using the D7100. Will check it out with all my bodies since all of them have U1 set up the same way.

Question so I fully understand...when you say AF-C is overridden, you mean it won't allow focus priority and uses release priority instead?
 

nickt

Senior Member
Question so I fully understand...when you say AF-C is overridden, you mean it won't allow focus priority and uses release priority instead?
Yes, your af-c priority choice is overridden when bbf is set. So on your d7100, even though menu a1 is set to focus priority, you will get release priority. I don't think it is mentioned in the manuals.
 

Fred Kingston

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Just so we're clear... the moving focus points are only active while you're in AF-C mode... so with BBF, you have to hold the BB down continuously while tracking/panning the bird...

Steve Perry also wrote a 500+ page PDF/eBook that, in detail, covers the process...(he even covers the settings for the pretty much all the Nikon camera models, including the newer D750 and D500. He also explains that he uses Single-point focus for most of his work...
 

hark

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Just so we're clear... the moving focus points are only active while you're in AF-C mode... so with BBF, you have to hold the BB down continuously while tracking/panning the bird...

Steve Perry also wrote a 500+ page PDF/eBook that, in detail, covers the process...(he even covers the settings for the pretty much all the Nikon camera models, including the newer D750 and D500. He also explains that he uses Single-point focus for most of his work...

Fred, I have it set as BBF with AF-C but with single point focus. The point didn't move and track which is why I asked. According to Jake's reply, the focus points have to be set to Dynamic​, not single point. Only one point shows up when using the Dynamic setting but moves within the range specified by the number of total points selected. That's the concept I hadn't grasped. Before I posted yesterday, I watched the Steve Perry video that Jake linked, but at the time I didn't realize the dynamic setting would still only show one moving focus point.

Haven't yet had a chance to change to the Dynamic setting, but I most certainly will change it and try it out. Most likely the focus point will then move and track in my viewfinder. :) I know you are trying to help...thanks for your input.
 

hark

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While technically correct this can be confusing because Dynamic Area focus only shows you a single focus point and it may appear in the viewfinder to be the same thing. What you want to use is Dynamic Area Focus which defines the number of points around the single point where the subject can "wander" in the viewfinder before the camera locks on something else. You want to set the area so it's as large as you need to keep the initial focus point in focus as you move with the subject. For BIF on my D500 (amazing focus system) I generally set the number of focus points to either 72 or the full focus area which runs the entire screen from L to R. On the D750 you're focus area is comparatively smaller so I would use D51 which will track the focus point throughout the full area as you shoot.

There are some other tracking/focus lock settings that you'll need to play with to find what works best for you. Steve Perry has a great video on focus modes for Nikon cameras which has likely been linked here a bunch of times, but it's worthwhile enough that I'm happy to link it again.


I went back and watched this entire video again since I now have a better understanding of how all these types of AF work. What I expected with AF-C is that the point would continually move and track. When Steve Perry got to the 3D AF section (9:07 in the video), that's what I assumed would happen by just being in AF-C. But it is a separate setting altogether. I want to try out that one. One of the problems I encountered was not being able to keep the point on top of the birds that were flying. All I can to is to experiment and see which setting will work best for me.

Thanks again to everyone. I appreciate your help! :encouragement:
 

Woodyg3

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Cindy. I would use dynamic, AF-C and just stick with it until you get a good feel for tracking the little guys. Make sure you acquire focus on the bird before firing, otherwise the camera can lock on to the wrong subject and will probably stay there. Pan as smoothly as you can to cut down on motion blur. Use a fast shutter speed, I always go manual, auto-ISO, and try to be 1/2000 or faster.

Have fun!
 

hark

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Cindy. I would use dynamic, AF-C and just stick with it until you get a good feel for tracking the little guys. Make sure you acquire focus on the bird before firing, otherwise the camera can lock on to the wrong subject and will probably stay there. Pan as smoothly as you can to cut down on motion blur. Use a fast shutter speed, I always go manual, auto-ISO, and try to be 1/2000 or faster.

Have fun!

I want to compare the 3D tracking and the dynamic settings to see if one will work better for me. It's been rainy for the past couple of days and is supposed to continue tomorrow. Hopefully either Monday or Tuesday I can give it a try! I'm really looking forward to playing around with these. Thanks for the info, Woody!
 

Woodyg3

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I want to compare the 3D tracking and the dynamic settings to see if one will work better for me. It's been rainy for the past couple of days and is supposed to continue tomorrow. Hopefully either Monday or Tuesday I can give it a try! I'm really looking forward to playing around with these. Thanks for the info, Woody!

Your D750 has group AF, right? I would give that a go, too. Steve Perry swears by it, and I mostly swear AT it. :) It works really well when it works, I must admit.

I have never given 3D a fair trial, so I'll be interested in ho that goes for you.
 

hark

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Your D750 has group AF, right? I would give that a go, too. Steve Perry swears by it, and I mostly swear AT it. :) It works really well when it works, I must admit.

I have never given 3D a fair trial, so I'll be interested in ho that goes for you.

Thanks, Woody. Yes, I believe it does have group AF. I need to practice with all of the types of focusing to experience their differences and see which might be better suited for any specific situation. One reason why I am practicing is because I was asked to shoot kids playing T-Ball. In Steve's video, he says the 3D AF is better for sports than wildlife.

In the video, I couldn't tell which type Steve prefers for wildlife except that it isn't the 3D AF. A couple days ago I bought his digital book but haven't yet had a chance to look through it. Last night I received another email saying an updated version of his book is now available so need to go and download the updated one.

There is a park near me that used to have lots of seagulls and geese, but I'm sure you know how geese poo isn't the most popular thing at a park. So now they release dogs into the park during the early morning hours to chase away the birds. It must be working because there aren't nearly as many of the birds around--especially so close. Sometimes they are way out on the water too far to really get good shots. That's why I went to a different park where many birds tend to roost.

Thanks again. It looks like Tuesday's weather might finally be clear. We've been experiencing an awful lot of rain, but at least I'm thrilled it isn't snow! I'm the one who gets to clean it up. ;)
 

hark

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This afternoon I had a chance to work with BBF and 3D AF. I was really looking foward to it!

On my way to find some birds, I came across this stream. It was flowing at a pretty good rate of speed. Looking through my viewfinder, the AF dot was racing around faster than a mouse on an exercise wheel! :beguiled: Seriously, it was all over the place. I tried changing to dynamic 9 but for some reason couldn't get anything to change.

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Once I was finished with the stream, I drove further to the lake. There were lots of birds sitting around on the boat dock. :encouragement: I was stoked. There was a cormorant sitting on a post so I raised the camera and looked through the viewfinder (keep in mind I was still in 3D AF). Well...that bird went in and out of focus so quickly that I thought I would fall over from dizziness! :shame: Oh my gosh! There were trees along the distant side of the lake so the bird was totally in focus, then totally out of focus, in, out, in, out, and so on and so on.... :beguiled: Now I understand why Steve Perry says he doesn't use it for wildlife.

So once again I tried to set the AF to dynamic 9 and was finally able to do so. Then I quickly switched to dynamic 39 which is the most focus points allowed. It worked well but I also went back and tried out dynamic 9. My biggest concern is not being able to keep my subject under one of those 9 points. Unfortunately I only had 2 opportunities to try out BIF--and one was with a bird flying in the opposite direction. I don't think anyone will be excited to see a bird's butt. ;)

This following shot was rather interesting though. What I hadn't realized when I took the photo is that the bird has bands on its legs. First up is the original shot followed by a very large crop showing the bands (On1 Resize 10 resized the crop from 2" up to 10" wide--it's amazing software!).

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DSC_5674 bands low res.jpg


Most of the birds were chilling and very relaxed. Although the follow image isn't a BIF, the seagull stayed put the entire time I was there. It was about 12 feet away--I need to pay more attention to my f-stop. At such a close distance plus with my 1/4x teleconverter, I should have stopped down more. This is the entire image--no crop was done to it. And before I go, I just want to thank everyone who helped explain the settings to me! :)

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Fred Kingston

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I was stoked. There was a cormorant sitting on a post so I raised the camera and looked through the viewfinder (keep in mind I was still in 3D AF). Well...that bird went in and out of focus so quickly that I thought I would fall over from dizziness!

Read more: https://nikonites.com/wild-life/41295-bif-tracking-question.html#ixzz58Gch9iE4

Cindy... On the AutoFocus menu... "a3 Focus tracking with lock-on" is the setting used to slow down the sensitivity between focus points when in Af-C Matrix...
 

nickt

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I forgot about a3, its certainly something to be aware of. I posted some thoughts about it awhile back here. In the past I have thought for sure it should be off. Other times I thought for sure it should be on, lol. I still like it off with af-c, release, bbf and single point. It could help you out with the dancing point like Fred said. Now that I am trying to get better at bif, I have to experiment all over again. :(
 

hark

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Cindy... On the AutoFocus menu... "a3 Focus tracking with lock-on" is the setting used to slow down the sensitivity between focus points when in Af-C Matrix...

I'll have to sit down and read up on that. I haven't been using matrix metering instead preferring center weighted. Not sure if that will make a difference. Thanks--the info definitely sounds interesting!

I forgot about a3, its certainly something to be aware of. I posted some thoughts about it awhile back here. In the past I have thought for sure it should be off. Other times I thought for sure it should be on, lol. I still like it off with af-c, release, bbf and single point. It could help you out with the dancing point like Fred said. Now that I am trying to get better at bif, I have to experiment all over again. :(

Guess I need to try with it on and off and see if it works better in some situations than others. Thank you.

So when you say you use single point, Nick, are you able to keep your subject under the point? I've been struggling with that although I'm just starting out with BIF and BBF.
 

nickt

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Cindy, don't forget you can view the focus point that was used by turning that feature on in your camera's image review. Or see the points after downloading if you use Nikon software. I used my newly setup U2 Saturday with d9, af-c, focus priority and shutter button focus. I was out back trying to get a picture of some swans and a young eagle circled high overhead. I switched to u2 and fired off some shots. The shots were all not too bad. They could have been sharper, but not trash. The Nikon software showed me that my focus point missed almost every time. This could have been my bad panning or the speed of the d7100 to take the shot after achieving focus. I tried to keep the bird centered every time I pressed the shutter. Not always successful. Also 1/1250 was probably a little slow for a flapping bird with my 150-600mm. I tried on some seagulls too. I got several half gulls in great focus, lol. Hard to pan and keep them in the frame. I need to try higher than d9 and auto area and 3d. And play with menu a3, ugh.

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