The Menace that is Amateur Wedding Photographers.

I often why the Amateur wedding photographers all over the world, find it such a huge joke that they are causing Professional Photographers to suffer and that we professionals should just accept it. Can a I ask these sniggering idiots, because that's what most amateurs are. How would you feel if you were being driven out of, or are having your jobs or businsess undermined by people who are untrained, talentless and only think they are capable of doing your job, but will do it for much less?
Secondly, most and probably all, of the Amateurs in the UK are NOT declaring these extra earnings to the Inland Revenue and are effectively breaking the law by by Tax Evasion.
Thirdly, you may think your work is up to scratch but judging by the many tearful brides that enter our studio with a DVD full of the dross as supplied by the shoot and burn merchants and begging us to salvage something,, you may consider that you are probably not as good as you think you are. I know there are many advanced amateurs that do indeed produce a respectable product and charge accordingly also declaring these earnings to the Revenue. I can live and compete with them no problem.
I would like to see if those that think their work is as good as their local pro's studio submit their work (jpegs of a complete wedding album) to this forum and have it looked at by all. Likewise lets see a few pro's submit a complete album as well. I'm more than happy to.
Lastly, if you an Amateur in the UK be very aware that the Inland Revenue are actively seeking people like you, Tax Evaders. So when you next get a call from the next client asking of your length of experience etc,, your answers will probably be furnishing the Tax Inspector with all the evidence he needs to base a Tax Assessment over however many years you admit to. This could run into thousands and if you have no paper trail, then you will have no defence whatsoever. You may not be the sniggering idiot for much longer, no you may just be a convicted Tax Evader that every working person in this world detests.

I do not shoot any weddings, because I do not want the risk of letting someone down (and I don't need the business). Keep in mind many "pro's" are not that great either. Thirteen years ago I paid a "pro" $3,000 for what I now consider garbage. When people ask me to do weddings, I tell them to find an "accomplished" photographer and check their references. There are great amateurs and lousy pros everywhere.

Perhaps you should post a complete album your great work?

I understand your frustration, but putting down amateurs to raise yourself up?

Does your work not speak for itself?

Well there you go...Sniggering Idiots hey...Put your album up or shut up..

Very Nice work Bossman! You should not have to be worried about amateurs!

As far as taxes, I think it's foolish not to register as a business. The tax write-off on gear is incentive enough for me!

I think part of the problem is an uneducated public which does not know the difference between quality work and "snapshots". The Economy is not helping either, many folks simply can't afford quality nowadays which makes the $500 amateur that much more attractive. Another issue along the uneducated public lines is the fact that they do not know how much pro gear costs and the effort great work requires.

I think the other point to consider is that many brides put the photographer and flowers on the bottom of the list . . . what we noticed here is that a bride's family has no qualms about paying $20,000 for the venue and then quibble about the price of a professional photographer . . . hence, the opportunity for the "shoot and burn" . I understand your frustration, Bossman. I, too, have met with brides whose parents had horror stories about photographers for other family member and they still WHINE!!

my compliments to all professional wedding photographers, may your hair not turn white early with the stress.

I agree with you Bossman - too many time I have seen this statement "turning pro what camera to buy " or I am shooting a wedding this weekend what's the "A" for on my camera I already have it in Auto.No kidding I have seen these remarks on this forum and other ones as well. Myself I am not a pro and don't consider or want to be. All my work is for my sole enjoyment & entertainment. I have donated photos to no profit organizations for their silent auctions to help raise funds for them. I have a few friends that for them photography is their living I feel sorry for them because these days they have to compete with anyone that has a DSLR. One friend has quit doing weddings altogether, strictly shoots architecture & commercial a specialized field where you have to know what you are doing.

Bossman, very nice images... Your work should easily stand on it's own merits. I will not address your comments towards Amateurs, many here myself included are amateurs but I do not consider any us " sniggering idiots".

Great photos and that's what this forum is about.

Pat in NH

I've shot a lot of weddings in my day, but I no longer do them...for a number of reasons. #1 reason: people just don't want to pay for quality work from a photographer (see Helene's post).

Like Sam, I no longer consider myself a "pro". I just shoot for my own enjoyment and for family and friends that want the occasional portrait. I'll do the odd landscape shot, but it's for me. If anyone wants to pay me for the shot....great! But I don't actively go out and solicit business. I can't be bothered with any of the hassle anymore.

One final note: pros that whine about amateurs and how they affect their business should be able to stand on their own merits and not have to worry about what the "idiot amateurs" are doing. It's really none of your business what or how people pay for a photographer, whether pro or amateur. It's up to the "pro" photographer to solicit for his business. If your rates are reasonable and your work is good, you have nothing to fear from any other photographer!

This is an age old tale and one that has been voiced since the dawn of photography. As technology advances the ease of taking of high quality images, the gap between so-called professional photographers and amateurs continues to shrink or possibly disappear completely. From the introduction of dry plates by G. Eastman up thru the 35mm and now with digital photography, the cry of "foul" from the previous generation of photographers has followed each new advancement like thunder after lightening. To quote Charles Dawin, those who fail to adapt to change will inevitably go extinct. Yes, I can empathize with those who feel their profession is being tarnished by unqualified new comers to the field of photography. But I also feel that unless you can distinguish yourself through your art and demonstrate to the least knowledgeable viewer that your artistry is in a class all its own, then perhaps it's time to reevaluate your own place in the scheme of things.

Regardless of whether one claims the title "professional" or "amateur", the proof of talent is truly in the pudding. Poorly executed wedding photographs are not to sole provenance of the amateur or non-professional photographer, there are more than enough examples of bad wedding pictures produced by so-called professional to give reason to consider hiring a non-professional to do your wedding. And more directly to the point, labeling non-professionals as the scapegoat does not do justice to the real cause of the problem - too many professional photographers unable or unwilling to nurture their creative edge and instead simply falling back on their tired old techniques and thus rendering themselves indistinguishable to the non-professional crowd.

The bottom line is this - if your portfolio does not elevate your work above those with far less experience and know-how, then perhaps it's time to ask yourself some very introspective questions about your art and where you fit in the current marketplace.

Unfortunately Bossman - as much as I agree with some of your comments - the world is changing with more people buying DSLRs your profession is fading fast not altogether but for the most part. Just as the "Travel Agency" there used to be hundreds - now we can go online and book our own flights, cruises etc. Very few photojournalist today why? everyone has a cellphone camera or a point n shoot in their pocket. News agencies don't need to pay someone big bucks when, hey they can get the same for peanuts. I think it's great, my friends that are photographers don't think so they are losing money everyday however they have come to accept the fact nothing can be done about it. There still will be studios don't get me wrong just not as many. there will still be sports photographers filling the sidelines - just as there will be folks like me shooting from the sidelines and hiking into the forest to shoot wildlife simply for our pleasure only

Sam you are quite correct, I have about 4 years before I retire and plenty work to get me there. My comments are made out of frustration and the fact that my heart and soul goes into my work, weddings are probably the only topic that cannot ever be retaken and it's those brides that I feel most sorry for. I have no problem with those that can do the job, but please think twice before taking on a wedding, it may look easy but it's not. Pressing a shutter on a modern DSLR does not make you qualified to undertake someones wedding. As for analogy with Travel Agents,, many people have done it themselves and have ended up in a disaster hotel etc. Someone once said you get what you pay for. You can always have another vacation after your disaster holiday whereas you cannot have another wedding day, can you.

These are some very nice photographs, you clearly know what you're doing. As a side note, why have you opted for a DX body over an FX one? Do you find an advantage in the cropped sensor or is it a non-issue and you're simply using what you use?

Bossman, you come onto a site which is largely inhabited by amateurs and try to make your point with that offensive rant. I'm sorry but you make me embarrassed to be British.

With regards to your last comments about raw images, you views are as out of date on that subject as they are on the way photography has moved on since digital became so prevalent.

I just don't get the name calling...I find it offensive and very immature...

Sounds like you lost a few jobs and lightened your hip pocket because of it...Get over it...

Have a nice day...

Bossman said:

There will be shock and horror on the faces of some now, What he doesn't shoot RAW? To be honest, most people shoot RAW because they read it in a book or a mag somewhere, or someone else said " Oh you must shoot raw, no good shooting Jpegs. Why the f*ck did they put jpegs on the camera in the 1st place then.

Click to expand...

Just like a point-and-shoot, I'm pretty sure they put JPEG in cameras for the people who can't figure out how to optimize a RAW image. I've got to admit, any so-called pro who is willing to settle for JPEG images goes a long way in helping me understand why they claim they're losing business to amateur photographers.

I am sorry folks, I have tried to keep my mouth shut, but I am out of patience... I respect the photo's here, but losing it fast for the man! Bossman, my work cannot hold a candle to yours but I am becoming offended by the constant rant that denigrates those of us who are amateurs.

I am new to DSLR and came here and found a friendly supportive community. I do not expect nor do I ask for praise from my peers here. I am hoping to learn from their comments, suggestions, photos etc.

I am an amateur who has a desire to (and is thanks to help here and my contstant practice) and is learning about lighting, composition some post processing. Not one person here put us noobies down, made fun of us, called us sniggling idiots. They made us feel welcome! I admire Jack, Dave, Jeff, Rick, Rick Marcel, Marilynne, Helene and more for both their photos and their willingness to help me improve. I am not a threat in any fashion and I have seen improvement in my photos in the 90 days I have been here.

One of the worst parts of your rants against amateurs, is my fear that new people will come in and read them, then choose to go elsewhere as they percieve that your rants are teh main culture here... I apologize if I have offended you but as stated, your photos are great and I respect them, but not the man. At this point, I wish they would be posted without any text, it would serve me and the community better, especially us newer amateurs.

Bossman, please have a great day and great Christmas Holiday... Moderators, if I have overstepped, I apologize, and accept any sanctions that I am due to receive. I just hate new people to be intimidated by rants that are not the culture of Nikonites.

Respectfully,

Pat in NH

I'm going to put this as kindly as possible. "Professional" wedding photographers, as a group, seem to be the ones having the most difficulty with the changing times. They can't seem to figure out how to adapt to the fact that EVERYBODY has access to a dslr and to becoming a wedding photographer ( if they can find a bride willing to hire them.) Times change, the whole photography industry has changed and it's up to the "pros" to adapt or sink. It's called evolution, or free enterprise . . . learn to adapt or perish.

There have been several "amateur" photographers who ask for help on this forum for shooting their first wedding, and I think all of us have given them as many pointers as possible. Why not help someone, they have to start somewhere, and not all of them have the luxury of being a second shooter for a wedding photographer . . . most wedding photographers are somewhat "insecure" about sharing knowledge and techniques with an "assistant" who might end up being their competition.

I, for one, am delighted that so many have access to fantastic cameras and are taking photographs. I love photography, and why shouldn't I be happy that others find the same kind of joy.

As far as the "amateur" vs "pro", we've had this discussion many times on this forum and the terms are really outdated. The members on this forum are proof that being amateur has nothing to do with the quality of photography. According to most photo organizations and competitions, the distinction between amateur and pro is simply the amount of money you make from your photography. That's it.

There are plenty of "amateurs" here that I would have no qualms about hiring for a professional shoot.

Wholeheartedly agree with you Helene

Perhaps its just me then, but I find those uploaded shots, all 2000 of them, ' ok ' but nothing really special. After that first tirade, and the impending " show me yours and i'll show you mine " ( was this just a ruse to post loads of your photos ? ) I was expecting shots to leap off the page, but sadly they dont. Just IMO of course