D800 and Diffraction - two words that will soon be synonymous

For all those with a D800 or are patiently waiting for their copy (like me), now would be a good time for us all to read up on optical diffraction. My gut tells me this monster-pixel camera is going to treat us all to a crash course in the subject and any apertures above 8 or 9 will soon be forbidden territory. In lesser pixel'ed camera's, you can somewhat get away with these higher apertures, but I don't think that's going to be the case with this baby.

And on this note here's some good reading sites -

Diffraction Limited Photography: Pixel Size, Aperture and Airy Disks;

Digital Camera Diffraction – Resolution, Color & Micro-Contrast

Understanding Lens Diffraction;

Diffraction limits of Resolution | Andre Gunther Photography;

With this camera I doubt you'll ever need to shoot at anything smaller than F8...

I was thinking about the D800 all day yesterday and I have decided the 100% coverage VF with 70 magnification on a 50mm lens would be the deal clincher for me...I absolutely hate the viewfinder in the D5000 and probably everyother Nikon DSLR there is. I find it interesting how all the pro cameras have the same strap lugs that are on my F2! Plus another thing I think the D800 and D4 are gonna do better than ever before is aquarium photography.

Eye-level said:

With this camera I doubt you'll ever need to shoot at anything smaller than F8...

I was thinking about the D800 all day yesterday and I have decided the 100% coverage VF with 70 magnification on a 50mm lens would be the deal clincher for me...I absolutely hate the viewfinder in the D5000 and probably everyother Nikon DSLR there is. I find it interesting how all the pro cameras have the same strap lugs that are on my F2! Plus another thing I think the D800 and D4 are gonna do better than ever before is aquarium photography.

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Yeah, I agree. And not to sound like a cheerleader, I think this camera is going to change a lot of people's attitude towards digital media. There will be no "point and shoot" with this baby. This camera will require forethought and a modicum of planning otherwise you'll end up with something that looks like it came out of a cell phone. My experience with the D7k has given me an appreciation for the basics of photography and in may ways the D800 will take us back to the days when preparation was a prerequisite to a high quality image. Having said this, I'm sure there will be many unhappy campers who will feel they wasted good money on something that doesn't take the kind of photos their D3000 does. Admittedly, I'm a little anxious about all this and hope I'm up to the challenge.

I would think diffraction is more dependant on the size of the sensor than the denisty/number of pixels? Wouldn't it be the same as other Fx sensors since the light is bending to the same degree? Perhaps less on Dx since the sensor is smaller.

cnyram said:

I would think diffraction is more dependant on the size of the sensor than the denisty/number of pixels? Wouldn't it be the same as other Fx sensors since the light is bending to the same degree? Perhaps less on Dx since the sensor is smaller.

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I think it has to do with the 2x+ great number of pixels cramped into the same space as compared to the D4. Since the pixels are closer together the "bleed over" from one to the next will be greater. There's an on-line D800 technical guide that is all about reducing diffraction and "blur" and reading between the lines makes me think they're getting ready for the avalanche of people complaining their photos have "blur" (their word, no mine).

http://www.nikonusa.com/en_US/o/Y6wrkA9OU_z04IreazIXl_22UII/PDF/D800_TechnicalGuide_En.pdf

Interesting guide. Wondering also if this is what is causing issues for some D7000 owners. Since the 7k sensor is less than half the size of the 800 and has 16mp, the density would be close. I'm finding with my 5100, I need to use higher shutter speeds, may try live view also. I wonder if quite mode wopuld have the same effect as live view. That guide is good info for all digital owners.

I think a huge thing that many folks miss when contemplating these new sensors is the processing power the new cameras have...eg my old D5000 processor is great but it is sort of like an old Pentium II compared to the D7000, D800, D4 which have the processing power of an Intel Core i5.

I have had mine for about 5 days now and while I used it over the weekend for a fashion shoot, it is already an incredible camera in my mind. The colours are excellent and while the focus is slower than my D3S (I choose not to upgrade to the D4) it was a bit of a chore to get the eyes sharply in focus.
People will need to understand that this camera is a very specific instrument for a specific job. For all of the above reasons, mine will be used for landscape, architecture, studio work etc. and will be used under controlled conditions. I have no intentions of retiring my D300s and D3S any time soon.
I was interested to note that in the past when the D700 came out, it was positioned as Advanced Amateur / Semi Pro body. For the reasons above, plus Nikon's "Warnings" about f-stop, diffraction, and all the other things you are hearing to be careful of.... this D800 is now a "Professional" body.
We all said the same thing when the D3X came out and how it never should be used hand-held.... I seen many shots with the D3X handheld ... very good shots.
Anyways, my shots have all been under f8 or so, so I can't give you any feedback on diffraction.
Just my $0.02 on the topic.
Tim

Hello Tim

I hope you would be gracious enough to let us know a little bit more about what you have going on photography wise sir. I'm intrigued and it all sounds very interesting. I would be grateful to see some of your snaps and get a little introduction from yourself.

Hi Jeff ...
Thanks for the note ... new to this forum and I appreciate the comment as I realized I forgot to update my profile. It is done now.
I shoot mostly sports and gigs / events, but am trying to broaden my exposure. I have a small (very small for now) business I have on the side.
The D800 is for some specialized apps that I have and am working on both for the business and for some personal interest.
I have attached two images from this past weekend.
Take a look and at the metadata. These were shot with the D800 and 85 1.4.... a nice combo but I am getting used to the high res. The D3s images were much better in my mind.
Happy to answer any questions I can.
Tim

The difference in skin tone is crazy...I can't see the exif for some reason...so these two are from the 800 and you have some more of the same subject from the D3???

Hi Jeff ...
Yes, sorry I was doing some editing in LR to play with warming colours etc. The fluorescent lights provide a very nice light but a bit cool. The image with the warmer tones has been adjusted.
Here is an image from my D3S.
As well as a screenshot of the exif data ... not sure why you can't see it but maybe the Nikonites uploader strips the data.
T

This diffraction thing is quite interesting, that with our super-high-tech cameras we are MORE limited than in the by-gone film days. I seem to recall there was an F64 club or magazine (large format of course). I also sort of recall from my early film days ('60s - '70's) that diffraction wasn't such an issue till f16 or so, in 35mm. So with the 4"x5" format (being a "large sensor") did the diffraction issue not occur so soon (small aperture-wise) as it does with our "small" 35mm film/sensors? If so - count one for the 'film-v-digital' warriors!

all this fretting ove the D800, yes a little more tricky, but I have been hand holding, using it mostly like my D700, and the camera does fine. I tend to shoot between 2.8-F11 to stay in the sweet spot of the lens, but I have stopped it down, and images are holding up nicely. If you look at that waterfall picture I posted, it was taken at F22, and when I zoom in,, every leaf is sharp on the master. Perhaps this is near the limit, but for now,, ok,, and I agree, the d7000 has the same sensor technology and density, and you don't see D7000 users stressing over the issue.