Nikon Capture NX2 & NEF editing?

csgaraglino

csgaraglino

Senior Member
I have always used Nikon Capture NX2 and now have a D810 and can't open NEF files finding myself looking for a completely new workflow - blah!

Up until now my (basic) workflow was as follows:

1. Ingest/Import files via Photo Mechanic, including updating IPTC data, basic keywording and external backup.

2. In PM I would find my selects and rate them accordingly.

3. Once I have am image I would like to make edits to, I would open it in Capture NX2.

- At this point NX2 would add in Lens Corrections and Picture Profile information.

4. (If necessary) from Camera Settings: I then make simple tweaks to White Balance, Picture Profile, Noise Reduction.

5. (If necessary) from Quick Fix: I then adjust the Curve, and make changes to Lighting and Saturation

6. Fine Tuning: Now all localized edits would be made.

7. Finalize: Typically I would adjust sharpening for the camera's filter and crop for output.


The reason I stuck with NX2 workflow is:
a) your always editing the RAW image
b) U-Point Technology made small localized edits supper easy
c) EVERYTHING is adjustable at ANYTIME.

If I needed to go back and adjust for WB or pull the highlights I could, even a year or two later - NOTHING is baked in.

I have Lightroom & Photoshop (latest) and Nik Collection installed. And while I am fairly comfortable with editing JPEGs in PS - I have not adopted LR for more than anything other than tethered shooting.

From what I can tell if I open a file in PS - I's forced to make the bulk of my edits that I would have made in Camera Settings & Quick Fix, at the Raw Converter level and then it's baked into the JPEG that is then opened in the native PS editing desktop and all "Fine Tuning" would now have to be preformed on this JPEG.

I do have the Nik Collection installed - but again - all edits are now being done to this baked JPEG and all the RAW data is no longer available?

Also, if I want to go back and make changes to the RAW file I would have to actually start over?

This does not make sense to me?, what am I missing?

What have you done to compensate for Nikon killing the best RAW editor out there?

Are there any other RAW editors that I can use to replace NX2 and closely maintain the workflow that I current have used?
 
Horoscope Fish

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
csgaraglino said:
I have always used Nikon Capture NX2 and now have a D810 and can't open NEF files finding myself looking for a completely new workflow - blah!

Up until now my (basic) workflow was as follows:

1. Ingest/Import files via Photo Mechanic, including updating IPTC data, basic keywording and external backup.

2. In PM I would find my selects and rate them accordingly.

3. Once I have am image I would like to make edits to, I would open it in Capture NX2.

- At this point NX2 would add in Lens Corrections and Picture Profile information.

4. (If necessary) from Camera Settings: I then make simple tweaks to White Balance, Picture Profile, Noise Reduction.

5. (If necessary) from Quick Fix: I then adjust the Curve, and make changes to Lighting and Saturation

6. Fine Tuning: Now all localized edits would be made.

7. Finalize: Typically I would adjust sharpening for the camera's filter and crop for output.


The reason I stuck with NX2 workflow is:
a) your always editing the RAW image
b) U-Point Technology made small localized edits supper easy
c) EVERYTHING is adjustable at ANYTIME.

If I needed to go back and adjust for WB or pull the highlights I could, even a year or two later - NOTHING is baked in.

I have Lightroom & Photoshop (latest) and Nik Collection installed. And while I am fairly comfortable with editing JPEGs in PS - I have not adopted LR for more than anything other than tethered shooting.

From what I can tell if I open a file in PS - I's forced to make the bulk of my edits that I would have made in Camera Settings & Quick Fix, at the Raw Converter level and then it's baked into the JPEG that is then opened in the native PS editing desktop and all "Fine Tuning" would now have to be preformed on this JPEG.

I do have the Nik Collection installed - but again - all edits are now being done to this baked JPEG and all the RAW data is no longer available?

Also, if I want to go back and make changes to the RAW file I would have to actually start over?

This does not make sense to me?, what am I missing?

What have you done to compensate for Nikon killing the best RAW editor out there?

Are there any other RAW editors that I can use to replace NX2 and closely maintain the workflow that I current have used?
Click to expand...
Because Nikon's .NEF file-format is proprietary only Nikon software allows (or allowed) you to easily save edits to the raw file itself. Third-party software, such as Lightroom and Photoshop, allow you to work with .NEF files but edits do NOT actually modify the raw file. Instead edits you make are saved in a sidecar file (an .XMP file when using Adobe Camera Raw) or you do a "Save As" and choose a file-type. This is known as "non-destructive editing" because your Master File, your original raw file, is always preserved in its original state. If there are other third-party applications that allow you to save edits directly to the .NEF file, I'm not aware of them. I understand this may seem like a step backwards to you coming from a place where you've been able to save edits to .NEF but I can't really do anything more than explain how things are.

However, you are not forced to go from .NEF to .JPG when moving from Adobe Camera Raw to Photoshop. Photoshop will pick up right where Adobe Camera Raw left off; working seamlessly with the same .NEF file you were working with in Adobe Camera Raw. Once you are done working in Photoshop, however, you will not be able to save your edits directly to the .NEF as you could in NX2; you will have to do a "Save As" and choose an output format (there's a "Save" option in the File-menu but even that opens a "Save As" dialog box and you'll still be required to choose an output file-type). You can choose a high resolution output file-type, such as .TIFF or .PSD, instead of .JPG if you wish but saving to .NEF is not an option.

All that being said, I can't suggest a new workflow for you that allows you to save edits directly to the .NEF files. I'm a Photoshop guy and non-destructive editing is pretty much all I know. Based on your current workflow I'll stick my neck out and say that using an Adobe Bridge/Lightroom based workflow might be your best alternative. I do NOT mean to say it will mirror your current workflow because it won't; I'm saying that, in my opinion, it may be your best alternative workflow. You could continue to use Photo Mech to do your rating and editing meta-data if you want, but Bridge has excellent tools for purging, rating etc. and Lightroom will edit IPTC data for you. Now, if someone knows of an application that would allow you to save edits directly to the .NEF file, so much the better but with the .NEF format being proprietary I'm not sure how many options you'll have.
 
Fred Kingston

Fred Kingston

Senior Member
What you're missing, in my opinion is the issue with JPGs... Why are you wasting time with them?

You can do about 4 or 5 of the things on your workflow list with 1 click in LR, after creating the proper presets.
 
cwgrizz

cwgrizz

Senior Member
Challenge Team
If you want to keep your current workflow, I think you can replace your NX2 with NX-d and have the same options as you have already had. I never used NX2, but from the sounds of what you are describing, NX-D does the same thing and you can work on the .NEF file as much as you want, leave it and come back later to tweak things again. NX-D is a free download from Nikon, so you can try it without and cost except time.
 
Horoscope Fish

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
cwgrizz said:
If you want to keep your current workflow, I think you can replace your NX2 with NX-d and have the same options as you have already had. I never used NX2, but from the sounds of what you are describing, NX-D does the same thing and you can work on the .NEF file as much as you want, leave it and come back later to tweak things again. NX-D is a free download from Nikon, so you can try it without and cost except time.
Click to expand...
NX-D uses sidecar files.
 
cwgrizz

cwgrizz

Senior Member
Challenge Team
Horoscope Fish said:
NX-D uses sidecar files.
Click to expand...
I agree, but the NEF file is still in tact, is it not? I can save, change or revert back to original at any time so I am missing something, I guess. Of course, I am not really familiar with many other processing software packages, so it is very likely that I am missing something that is obvious to others. :confusion:


480sparky said:
There's things NX2 can do that NX-D does not. Such as U-Point technology. Newer does not always mean better.
Click to expand...

This is also a very true statement. I really wasn't meaning to imply that NX-D was better or as good as, only it was an option. And I don't even know what U-Point technology is. Ha!
 
Horoscope Fish

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
cwgrizz said:
I agree, but the NEF file is still in tact, is it not? I can save, change or revert back to original at any time so I am missing something, I guess.
Click to expand...
You are correct about how NXD works but how NXD works is part of the OP's problem...

With NX2 you were able to over-write your original .NEF (raw) file with your edits and that's what's missing from NX-D. He doesn't want to revert back to the original, unedited .NEF file, he wants to be able to save his edits to that original .NEF file; something you were able to do with NX2, but not with NXD.
 
A

aroy

Senior Member
As Nx2 is no longer supported OP has option of using NX-D. I find using side car files a much better proposition compared to saving them in NEF file itself -
. It leaves the NEF in its original state
. You can use any other RAW processor on the original file, which would not be possible once the file is saved in NX2

If OP wants to save the basic edits in the NEF file, then NXi does that, but then you loose the original file as all edits are over written.
 
csgaraglino

csgaraglino

Senior Member
I don't really care about the side car files - it's more about editing and what's being edited.

For example - lets say that you have a high dynamic range photos of a quarterback in mid play.
Seemingly simple everyday shot someone might take (be it peewee, high school, college or NFL).

The camera got 80% of whats needed in camera and now you bring it in your editor and start making those tweaks.
But the biggest problem with the shot that keeps ot form being on the cover of SI is that the QB's face is too dark!

Moat all solutions will allow you to preform specific local edits - but not with the most important data - the RAW data.

And yes - I have the Nik Collection add-on to get the UPoint power and prescience - but in LR and PS you have to use it on Baked JPEG's?

And in a lot of cases - there is just not enough data to get a good pull form the dark.

In NX2 - you got all the RAW data to pull form.

If you have never sreiously used NX2 as your editing tool - you'll not understand what power you have lost!

I know NX2 is done - and at this point I have to either jump ship into the Adobe Kool-Aid pond OR sell the D810 and get a D4 and stick with NX2
 
Horoscope Fish

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
csgaraglino said:
And yes - I have the Nik Collection add-on to get the UPoint power and prescience - but in LR and PS you have to use it on Baked JPEG's?
Click to expand...
No, you do not.

If the .NEF file-type is associated with Photoshop double-clicking on a .NEF file will open that file in Adobe Camera Raw by default.
Make any changes you want in Adobe Camera Raw (or don't make any at all, doesn't matter) then click on the "Open Image" button which invokes Photoshop.
At this point you are still working on the original raw file, the very same .NEF that was opened in Adobe Camera Raw.
From Photoshop, click on "Filter" from the tool-bar, go into NIK Tools, make your edits and exit NIK Tools.
Most adjustments made in NIK are placed on a new layer, but not all will. Either way, at this point you are STILL working on the original raw file.
You will continue to work on that original raw file until you perform a "Save As" at which point you will need to choose an output format (.JPG, .TIFF etc.)
 
A

aroy

Senior Member
csgaraglino said:
I don't really care about the side car files - it's more about editing and what's being edited.

For example - lets say that you have a high dynamic range photos of a quarterback in mid play.
Seemingly simple everyday shot someone might take (be it peewee, high school, college or NFL).

The camera got 80% of whats needed in camera and now you bring it in your editor and start making those tweaks.
But the biggest problem with the shot that keeps ot form being on the cover of SI is that the QB's face is too dark!

Moat all solutions will allow you to preform specific local edits - but not with the most important data - the RAW data.

And yes - I have the Nik Collection add-on to get the UPoint power and prescience - but in LR and PS you have to use it on Baked JPEG's?

And in a lot of cases - there is just not enough data to get a good pull form the dark.

In NX2 - you got all the RAW data to pull form.

If you have never sreiously used NX2 as your editing tool - you'll not understand what power you have lost!

I know NX2 is done - and at this point I have to either jump ship into the Adobe Kool-Aid pond OR sell the D810 and get a D4 and stick with NX2
Click to expand...

I have no idea how NX2 works, but in NXD you have various methods of boosting the shadows or toning the highlights down

1. Active D Light will change the intensity response curve biased towards the low end, so that the shadow data is visible
2. Shadow Recovery will boost only the dark regions.
3. Free hand response curve for intensity transformation either for all colours at a time of for individual colors

All these can be controlled and the curve used saved, so that you can apply custom curves in a batch.

Selling modern bodies due to lack of software that is discontinued, is in my opinion a retrograde step. You are in a matter of saying throwing the baby with bath water. Every day a new software is introduced and the old is unsupported, so it is a fact of life that unlike yester years, you are saddled with learning new software again and again.

Again, if you want to use LR or PS with the full dynamic range of the sensor, just do basic adjustments in NX-D and export the output as a 16 bit TIFF.
 
csgaraglino

csgaraglino

Senior Member
Horoscope Fish said:
No, you do not.

If the .NEF file-type is associated with Photoshop double-clicking on a .NEF file will open that file in Adobe Camera Raw by default.
Make any changes you want in Adobe Camera Raw (or don't make any at all, doesn't matter) then click on the "Open Image" button which invokes Photoshop.
At this point you are still working on the original raw file, the very same .NEF that was opened in Adobe Camera Raw.
From Photoshop, click on "Filter" from the tool-bar, go into NIK Tools, make your edits and exit NIK Tools.
Most adjustments made in NIK are placed on a new layer, but not all will. Either way, at this point you are STILL working on the original raw file.
You will continue to work on that original raw file until you perform a "Save As" at which point you will need to choose an output format (.JPG, .TIFF etc.)
Click to expand...

As soon as you click the Filter (PS) or Edit In (LR) you are at that pony editing a JPG version of the RAW file. Once you hit commit, you have "baked" in the settings/adjustments - period. In NX you don't!

I can at any time go back and readjust, or even remove a step in the editing - in LR/PS you can not, you have to actually start all over from the RAW file and bake the filter settings in once again.


Regards,
Chris Sgaraglino
Photo: Widow Creek Photography
Cycling: My Life on Two Wheels
 
Horoscope Fish

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
csgaraglino said:
As soon as you click the Filter (PS) or Edit In (LR) you are at that pony editing a JPG version of the RAW file.
Click to expand...
You're going to have to explain this because nothing in PS leads me to believe a .NEF is converted to .JPG simply by applying a filter. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm certainly not convinced. For instance, the PS tabs for open files show the filename ending with .NEF as I'm working on them even after applying filter, whether it be a filter native to PS or one from NIK or another third-party plug-in. What leads you to believe applying a filter converts the .NEF to .JPG?

@BackdoorHippie :: Jake, if you have a second, would weigh-in on this, please? I'd appreciate hearing your thought's.
 
Last edited:
BackdoorArts

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
Horoscope Fish said:
You're going to have to explain this because nothing in PS leads me to believe a .NEF is converted to .JPG simply by applying a filter. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm certainly not convinced. For instance, the PS tabs for open files show the filename ending with .NEF as I'm working on them even after applying filter, whether it be a filter native to PS or one from NIK or another third-party plug-in. What leads you to believe applying a filter converts the .NEF to .JPG?

@BackdoorHippie :: Jake, if you have a second, would weigh-in on this, please? I'd appreciate hearing your thought's.
Click to expand...

Lightroom does not force you to work in JPEG when using Nik, it gives you a choice of JPEG, PSD or TIFF...

Screen Shot 2016-08-17 at 9.43.14 AM.png



Just go into the Lightroom Preferences -> External File Handling and set the type of file you'd want for each Nik filter. In Photoshop you can set preferences in the Nik Selective tool whether you want the filter to affect the current layer or create a new one (file type is determined by the File Format chosen in your Lightroom or ACR preferences).
 
BackdoorArts

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
Adding on, when opening a file in Photoshop it's going to take the file type preference from Lightroom (as shown above). When opening from Camera RAW the file information is parameterized at the bottom of the camera raw window...

Screen Shot 2016-08-17 at 9.51.57 AM.jpg



When opening a RAW file Ps will always show the raw file extension (NEF) on the file until you do a save inside Photoshop. Until then you are working with all light information available in the RAW file. When you save Ps will default to a PSD file when working with an original RAW file. If you want something else you'll need to do a Save As. Nik has no effect on file type within Ps, it only effects the current layer within the file.
 
Horoscope Fish

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
BackdoorHippie said:
Adding on, when opening a file in Photoshop it's going to take the file type preference from Lightroom (as shown above). When opening from Camera RAW the file information is parameterized at the bottom of the camera raw window...

When opening a RAW file Ps will always show the raw file extension (NEF) on the file until you do a save inside Photoshop. Until then you are working with all light information available in the RAW file. When you save Ps will default to a PSD file when working with an original RAW file. If you want something else you'll need to do a Save As. Nik has no effect on file type within Ps, it only effects the current layer within the file.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Jake... That jibes with my understanding.
 
csgaraglino

csgaraglino

Senior Member
Ok guys, I hope this will help.

Here is a short video explaining what I am talking about when I say the adjustments are being baked into the image.

I picked a crappy photo and made crappy adjustments - just to show my point.

This is not about which editor is better at processing the image - but rather about the ability to make adjustments to edits.

 
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