The mysterious WhiteBalance

Borga Voffe

Senior Member
I have really never understood that white balance in my cameras. Just left it at AUTO, fixing my photos in Photoshop

Maybe time to change, set in d7200?
Or maybe not, as I am now shooting in raw, not jpegs ?

DSC00698b2.jpg
 

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
I have really never understood that white balance in my cameras. Just left it at AUTO, fixing my photos in Photoshop

Maybe time to change, set in d7200?
Or maybe not, as I am now shooting in raw, not jpegs?
In short, White Balance is the color, or temperature, of the ambient light.

I use Auto White Balance myself for the most part, but I'll set a custom white balance in a heartbeat if I think I need to. Since I shoot raw exclusively I almost always wind up tweaking the white balance in post; it's just part of the workflow.
 

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
Like Paul, I essentially leave WB on Auto when I shoot since I'm also shooting Raw and will adjust it in post.

One reason you'd want to select a preset WB (either one of theirs or a custom setting) is that when shooting a bunch of shots in similar light you will wind up with a set of images that look the same and can respond similarly to a post-processing preset built on one with consistent results. Auto WB can vary just a tick here and there in similar light depending on changes in image content, so unless you actually set the WB as part of your preset the results can be something other than uniform across the set. If you're shooting HDR, and especially if you're shooting panoramas, it's critical to make sure you use consistent WB across the images. My rule is that if I'm on a tripod then setting a specific WB is part of my process. But, if I forget, I make sure it's the first thing I fix in post.
 

Woodyg3

Senior Member
Contributor
I use auto white balance and fix if needed in post. The D7200 does have the option of fine tuning auto white balance, and I might do that one of these days. I find the white balance tends toward the cool and violet, which is a common comment about Nikon's auto white balance in general.

Honestly, the main problems I have had with white balance have been when I accidentally changed the white balance setting and didn't notice it. :)
 

Sandpatch

Senior Member
Recently I've been taking by D5100 off Auto WB and setting it for Sunlight if that's my environment. Interestingly, I find that less processing is needed -- almost none in some shots. So, I'm a new fan of setting it for Sunlight at least. BUT, Woody has a valid warning about the necessity of remembering to reset it before you shoot. I try to remember to reset mine to Auto at the end of the day just in case.
 

RON_RIP

Senior Member
I use cloudy as my white balance default. I think that it adds a little warmth to each scene and of course I always use a cpl when shooting outside.
 

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
I don't concern myself with how people manage their white balance but I will point out that learning how to set a custom white balance was probably one of the best things I ever learned how to do. I just didn't know how easy it was and taking those few seconds up front to set a custom WB has saved me sooooo much time in post.
 

hark

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
I don't concern myself with how people manage their white balance but I will point out that learning how to set a custom white balance was probably one of the best things I ever learned how to do. I just didn't know how easy it was and taking those few seconds up front to set a custom WB has saved me sooooo much time in post.

But doesn't the in-camera white balance setting only affect jpeg files?
 

Zeke_M

Senior Member
I will point out that learning how to set a custom white balance was probably one of the best things I ever learned how to do .

Would you share the Reader's digest version of figuring white balance for a particular situation?
Florescent and neon lighting gives me fits.
 

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
But doesn't the in-camera white balance setting only affect jpeg files?
Your underlying assumption is correct, WB is not "applied" to a raw file like it is a JPG, but when I open a raw file in ACR a WB profile can be applied such as "As Shot", "Auto", "Daylight", "Cloudy" et al. And of course I also have the option of adjusting the sliders to create a "custom" setting or using the WB Tool. Setting a custom WB in camera just means I'll be that much closer to the correct WB right from the get-go using the "As Shot" WB profile. There are so many ways to correct WB I think you just have to find some tools that work for you and fit comfortably in your overall workflow. For instnace you can use the WB tool in ACR for batch processing a lot shots so you can then tweak individual shots in PS using a Levels Adjustment layer.

In short, I'm just trying to save myself time in post by getting my WB as accurate as I can with as little extra work in ACR/PS as possible. To that end I've adjusted my Auto1 WB setting in camera (I warmed it up a little) and use the "As Shot" profile in ACR. All that really does is help reduce my post processing time.


.....
Would you share the Reader's digest version of figuring white balance for a particular situation?
Florescent and neon lighting gives me fits.
I don't try to "figure out" WB, really, and I don't use the in-camera presets. No real logic behind this it's just how I do things. I use Auto (WB) and see what that gets me most of the time. If that isn't working, or know I'm going to need to, I use a grey card and set a custom white balance. Mixed lighting is where I would *definitely* want to set a custom WB but how you do that, exactly, depends on your camera. If I can't set a custom WB using a grey card for some reason then I have to noodle it out in ACR using the WB profiles, the WB Tool or fix it manually (using the sliders) which I really don't like doing. Most likely I'll use the WB tool in that case and batch process the files, en masse to at least get things close and then I'll tweak individual shots.

A favorite way of correcting WB for single shots is to apply a Levels adjustment layer in PS and use the White Point, Grey Point and Black Point tools.
 
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WayneF

Senior Member
Florescent and neon lighting gives me fits.

Those are indeed difficult. There are a few varieties of fluorescent, like Cool, Warm white, Daylight, all being different colors, and there are variations in each type. Generally we don't have a way to know what type of bulb is installed there. Or even if we bought them, they still vary. Florescent also has a CRI rating (Color Rendering Index) on the better of them, how well they reproduce a few general colors. High CRI is 80 or 90, still less then 100. If it does not say, it is not good CRI. The best is decent, but not perfect color.

And there are another two types of fluorescent, those using old magnetic ballasts (1990s and older). CFL and desk lamps bulbs use electronic ballast, as do many new new lighting fixtures, but it is not a sure bet at all. We can still buy magnetic ballasts.

Electronic ballast creates a very high frequency, so no flicker issues. Magnetic ballast causes flicker at the 60 or 50 Hz line frequency (technically, at 2x that rate). So we have to use a slow shutter speed (ideally precisely 1/60 or 1/120 second shutter in North America) to capture whole cycles, or else we get random dark and dirty (brownish) color from them. A 1/150 second shutter is guaranteed to see only a partial cycle, with random poor color results. This is part of the art of shooting under (older) fluorescents. Those with electronic ballast (including CFL) are no issue about flicker.

Incandescent lights vary color too, a few different types and colors too, and it even varies with watts, and age, but at least they are the definition of CRI 100. They are Orange, but a complete spectrum, and we can correct them.

Neon seems hopeless. IMO, probably the best general effect is to use Daylight White Balance, to show their actual colors?

Direct sunlight on a clear day is pretty much the only constant color we have, always same as expected by the camera Daylight WB, but of course cloudy and shade and sunsets, etc are a different story.

Flash WB is about the same as Daylight, but flash color varies with flash power level. Also with specific flash tube, and age of that flash tube.

WB varies. :)

So learning how to correct White Balance is a pretty necessary thing to know. Fundamentally important to good picture results. There are several methods, and any try is better than no try. :)

In the old days, a good film photo lab would do much of the WB correction for us. It was not even required that we use blue flash bulbs, many labs would simply fix it for us. Digital however is our job to do.

Cameras now offer Custom WB, which is a way to aim the camera at a white or gray known-neutral card (neutral meaning known to be made with equal RGB components of its own color, i.e., no color cast... i.e., a white balance card). Card should fill the entire frame (proper focus is not actually necessary). Then it lets Auto WB correct that view of that card (of only the card), in the same light that is on the subject. This works only because the card is a known-neutral color (and the light is the same on the subject). Then we shoot the subject using that custom WB. The problem with Auto WB in general is that it has no clue about the actual color, but using the neutral card, any color cast is incorrect and should be removed.

This Custom thing seems tedious to do to me, and an easier way that I much prefer is to just put the card in the scene at the subject, in the same light as the subject, and take one test picture, including the card. Then remove the card, and shoot away (preferably using raw images). IF it will be in the same light as the subject, we can often just hold the card at arms length in front of the camera (clear focus not required). Then later, the raw editor will have a White Balance Tool, we simply click the card in the first test shot, which can simultaneously correct all frames in that same session (same light on the subject). Ought to be perfect color, no color cast.

Or, an old time way that still works, certainly in emergencies (just meaning no prior planning), maybe not always perfect, but generally works quite well... far better than no try at all. Many if not most scenes already have something white in them. I don't mean off-white like normal walls, but things that were intended to look actually white.. a white envelope, or a table cloth, or a piece of white paper, or china plate or dish, or plastic bottle cap, or a common sign about pizza or smoking, or a church steeple, or a picket fence, or a T-shirt, or a shirt collar, or maybe a white cruise boat, or the polka dots on the kids pajamas, etc, etc..

White things are common. Not all are equal, but just click that actually white object for generally pretty good results, not fail safe, but works pretty good very often. If you have no other plan or opportunity, why not try it? The white thing should be in the SAME light as the main subject.

Clicking the white thing tells the computer "This spot is white, make it look white" (white meaning neutral, no color cast - gray cards work too, but they are pretty dark to show slight color cast well). That result goal would be pleasing color, if not precisely accurate color... Precisely correct depends on using a known neutral card. But pleasing is good too. :) Far better than no try or no clue.

More of this at Easy White Balance Correction, with or without Raw
 
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WayneF

Senior Member
I use Auto White Balance myself for the most part, but I'll set a custom white balance in a heartbeat if I think I need to. Since I shoot raw exclusively I almost always wind up tweaking the white balance in post; it's just part of the workflow.

Like Paul, I essentially leave WB on Auto when I shoot since I'm also shooting Raw and will adjust it in post

One reason you'd want to select a preset WB (either one of theirs or a custom setting) is that when shooting a bunch of shots in similar light you will wind up with a set of images that look the same and can respond similarly to a post-processing preset built on one with consistent results.

What I hear is advocating camera Custom WB with raw, so I'm curious why?

I would argue that the Custom WB method apples to shooting JPG, and would be good for JPG, since JPG has less range to readjust it later.

But to me, it makes no sense for raw, since WB is not added to raw data. What would be the point? Raw probably could recover WB from the Exif, but the point of raw is to be able do it after we can see what we're doing, when we can fix what it needs.

I do also use Auto WB with raw. I am no fan of Auto WB as an end result, and that is not in raw data either, but Auto does handle the rear LCD preview image and the histogram for raw, good enough for that, at least ballpark. Otherwise to me, in raw, WB seems best ignored until later.

As to the consistency of post processing in raw, my notion (non-factual theory) is that WB seems to be done on the raw data before conversion. Color temperature degrees K is not in the Exif, but what is there is like these Bayer values (this is Flash WB):

WB RB Levels : 1.6875 1.15234375 1 1
WB GRBG Levels : 256 432 295 256 (same values in another place, Bayer Green Red Blue Green, divide by 256)

Multipliers to implement WB.
The two green values are 1, but still, why else would they be there?

It would make sense to do WB before gamma conversion because gamma has to be decoded.
 
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