How will D500 do Commander Mode with no built-in flash?

I've got a D300, D810, and D7200. All have built-in flashes. I've never used ANY of them to take flash images, but I DO use Commander Mode regularly to trigger 1 or more SB flashes wirelessly when doing close-up photography. The ability to adjust flash exposure from the camera menu makes life easier. As I understand it, the trigger for the flash is the built-in camera flash, but the settings are communicated wirelessly from the camera to the flash(es) to get the exposure correct.

Since the D500 doesn't HAVE an internal flash, will it incorporate Commander Mode? And if so, how will it trigger the SB flashes? Can I just use one of those inexpensive hot-shoe slave trigger flashes?

There are other Nikon DSLR without an internal flash, or without a Commander, and what you have to do is to use a hot shoe SB flash that does offer Commander mode. Not all SB do this, but several do. Or the SU-800 offers hot shoe Commander. Commander has to be on the hot shoe (or on a hot shoe cable).

I assume the D500 still offers FV Lock, but if not, that makes the SU-800 more essential. It will be more interesting after the manuals are available online.

If you use "real" manual flash mode, you could use any manual flash on hot shoe to trigger them, but Commander mode needs a Commander.

Apparently, what the D500 offers is radio trigger flash, which only the new SB-5000 flash can accommodate. But Commander will work, if you provide a Commander.

WR-R10/WR-T10/WR-A10 Wireless Remote Control Set

If you have an array of existing Nikon flashes, and DON'T want to buy their NEW SB-5000 flash, then you'll need the above new remote to control them... seems Nikon just keeps wanting to shoot themselves in the foot...

FredKingston said:

WR-R10/WR-T10/WR-A10 Wireless Remote Control Set

If you have an array of existing Nikon flashes, and DON'T want to buy their NEW SB-5000 flash, then you'll need the above new remote to control them... seems Nikon just keeps wanting to shoot themselves in the foot...

Click to expand...

I read that as being a wireless shutter release, which is not about flash, except it says it can also trigger the SB-5000.

There are other much cheaper 10 pin wireless shutter releases, around $35.

Hence my comment about Nikon "shooting themselves in the foot"...

The one part triggers the camera, the other looks like a light that flashes, and triggers the external CLS lights...

I agree... a $35 set of wireless radio triggers will accomplish the firing... How well they manage the remote setting and TTL modes might be questionable though...

Well, in a word, "blech"..... I'll wait to see what's in the manual when it's available. Fortunately, I don't plan on HAVING to use the D500 for close-up work requiring wireless control of one or more SB flashes, so it's not a critical shortcoming. It did strike me as odd that the D300, D300s and D810 are all sufficiently "low-brow/consumer-ish" as to have a built-in flash, but the D500 doesn't. But, I've kind of gotten used to oddities from Nikon over the years. I suspect Canon, Sony, Fuji, and other people have the same kind of bizarre behaviors with their equipment manufacturers.

GracieAllen said:

Well, in a word, "blech"..... I'll wait to see what's in the manual when it's available. Fortunately, I don't plan on HAVING to use the D500 for close-up work requiring wireless control of one or more SB flashes, so it's not a critical shortcoming. It did strike me as odd that the D300, D300s and D810 are all sufficiently "low-brow/consumer-ish" as to have a built-in flash, but the D500 doesn't. But, I've kind of gotten used to oddities from Nikon over the years. I suspect Canon, Sony, Fuji, and other people have the same kind of bizarre behaviors with their equipment manufacturers.

Click to expand...

Well, Nikon only went to RF flashes because Canon already did. The Nikon low price end means "with internal flash, but without Commander". Commander was a high end feature. But NONE of the top end of the Nikon line, like the D2, D3, D4 have an internal flash (so no Commander until added). I think the thinking is that professionals never use the internal flash, in favor of off camera lighting. The D500 and new D5 too, no flash and no Commander, although some of the reason is they will now support the new SB-5000 flash using radio frequency instead.

But all these models (including D500) still do all the old things, and can still use a Commander for optical flash with the previous SB units... its just that they require providing your own Commander to do it. You can still use a hot shoe flash as commander. The SB-700, SB-800, SB-900, SB-910 can be a commander on the hot shoe. SU-800 too. And SB-500 maybe, although only if on a D750 or D810 camera to support it... (might be true of the new models too, I don't know how they will fit in there).

Anyway, if you want a Commander, it is your call, simply add a commander on the hot shoe. You probably already have one. Before investing more in commanders though, be aware that times are fixing to change... this probably signals the end of that Commander era. The next new camera models may be the same thing, RF and no Commander? People do want RF though, just not sure many are willing to pay Nikon prices. The SB-5000 is $600. I don't know how long it will be before we see inexpensive Chinese equivalents.

I have used both Nikons and Olympus Flash systems that used similar features the IR signals for the remote flashes. They do work inside a room as the IR signals do bounce as I had a flash inside one of those humungous Apollo Soft boxes that it surprised me. The Flash head was turned toward the box and body with the sensor to the subject. The white diffusion material is in front of the sensor which surprised me. Outside in bright sunlight is iffy but okay in shade and diffused (cloudy) is fine. I had one work across a stream, maybe 20 or 30 feet distance with the couple across the stream and the flash and umbrella. I generally use the radio triggers and the flash in manual mode and use a Sekonic Flash/Ambient light meter to get the proper exposure either inside or outside.
One of the reasons I was not worried about no on board flash. I did buy a set of Yonguno transmitters and receivers that do use TTL and they seem to work fine with a mixture of Nikon and off brand compatible flashes. Not sure if the will help the OP but there have been work arounds.

Lou Cioccio

This was what I was referring to using the IR pulses from the flash to trigger a remote flash. Here is the image taken with non-nikon camera that is using the similar CLS that Nikon uses. Look at his glasses you can just see where the strobe flashes; its on a light stand with an white umbrella and I am across the creek. Camera on a tripod. Its being controlled by the flashes on the "on board flash" as the trees and overcast skies made the IR pulses work. I did have some transmitters/receivers that I could use if it did not work. Not sure if the EXIF is there? I was using a 70-300 Olympus lens and the shutter was 1/60 and the mode of the flash was TTL and that tripod I used was a heavy one. Note they are in shorts as the creek water was mid calf high. I did not pick the spot they did!
Lou Cioccio

GracieAllen said:

It did strike me as odd that the D300, D300s and D810 are all sufficiently "low-brow/consumer-ish" as to have a built-in flash, but the D500 doesn't.

Click to expand...

The reason for omitting the flash was to improve weather sealing. The D5 (like it's predecessors) also do not have flash. I expect the next iteration of the D8xx to also remove the pop-up flash.

FredKingston said:

I agree... a $35 set of wireless radio triggers will accomplish the firing... How well they manage the remote setting and TTL modes might be questionable though...

Click to expand...

In my opinion ... Why does it matter ... I cant see ANY use for TTL, its just auto for a flash, I have a lot more control over my flashes in manual than when I had TTL flashes).

I can see why they have moved away from no flash. The pro models dont have them and this is priced as a pro crop camera. Anyone who is buying this camera isn't using the pop up flash, they already have OCF solutions.

Daz said:

In my opinion ... Why does it matter ... I cant see ANY use for TTL, its just auto for a flash, I have a lot more control over my flashes in manual than when I had TTL flashes).

Click to expand...

Yeah, just like transmissions on cars. I can put it in the gear I want to use. And thermostats on heat/air systems, I can go start or stop them when I get uncomfortable. Or camera A mode that sets whatever exposure it wants.. I can set the exposure that I want. All this automation stuff is for idiots that can't do it themselves.


EDIT: Realizing that maybe I need to point out my comment was made in jest.
I do use camera A mode or TTL flash mode as often as I use manual modes. Both have their purposes.

The manufactures dumb it down thinking its easier with Auto or scene modes. I am in the midst of teaching a Basic DSLR class most have never picked up a film camera and vaguely remember the Kodak Instamatic. In my slide presentation I showed them the the two shutter speeds it had and how more experience users kept the old flash cube to use the slower shutter speed. I have my film cameras and lenses to show them whats missing compared to the SWD lenses. The first class everyone is in manual mode and learn how to use it. It slows them down for the second class we go into modes (A,S,Av,Tv, etc) and metering modes (spot, center, average). By the third class we are into Flashes with on board and off camera with modifiers. We do go into TTL and why 90% okay and 10% fail when you have bright or dark background when the subject is not. Then to manual flash modes and why a combo flash/ambient meter is you best friend if you are serious in photography. The 4th session is a walk about and putting into practice the skills they learn. Dark statues agains a white back ground or a statue against a bright sky and so on as we walk about the center city of Erie,PA.
Lou Cioccio

GracieAllen said:

I've got a D300, D810, and D7200. All have built-in flashes. I've never used ANY of them to take flash images, but I DO use Commander Mode regularly to trigger 1 or more SB flashes wirelessly when doing close-up photography. The ability to adjust flash exposure from the camera menu makes life easier. As I understand it, the trigger for the flash is the built-in camera flash, but the settings are communicated wirelessly from the camera to the flash(es) to get the exposure correct.

Since the D500 doesn't HAVE an internal flash, will it incorporate Commander Mode? And if so, how will it trigger the SB flashes? Can I just use one of those inexpensive hot-shoe slave trigger flashes?

Click to expand...

If you need/use a pop up flash at all, you may not be within the target market for the D500

Interesting: This is on the SB5000 Flash
Commander Function Yes
Remote Function Yes
Transmission Mode Radio control and optical communication
Transmission Range Radio control approx. 98 ft. (30m), optical communication - line of sight
Now I looked at the D5 and D500 specs but could not find anything specific to a radio transceiver although both have wifi. I am wondering if the D500 will have radio control? Both cameras do have compatibility to CLS. I wonder if third parties will do the same as Yonguono has done. Anybody knows for sure?
Lou Cioccio

Use the radio controlled Advanced Wireless Lighting system to fire the SB-5000 Speedlight from a distance. Actually found this at the Cameta's web site about the D500. So it has both radio control and would probably use an external flash or adaptor (Nikon's or third party) to do commander mode. I wonder if its possible to mix but I doubt it.
Lou Cioccio