Does Anyone Know What The Nikon is Doing? (D800 aside)

So in Manual mode it seems pretty clear, but in P,A, and S, the settings are clearly lying to me.


Scenario 1: Camera mode S; shutter speed set to 1/125, ISO 100 (no auto). Enter live view and start video recording; exposure is being controlled automatically. Display says 1/125, f3.5, ISO 100, but clearly there is not enough light for proper exposure, so what is being adjusted? I am guessing ISO... so can I count that my shutter speed will at least be fixed to 1/125?


Scenario 2: Camera mode S; shutter speed set to 1/125, ISO 1600 (no auto). Enter live view and start video recording; exposure is being controlled automatically. Display says 1/125, f3.5, ISO 1600. Now frame much brighter scene and see fStop rise to as high f22. So can I safely assume the camera is actually adjusting aperture? What happens if light is great enough to over expose at f/22 @ 1/125, does it scale back the ISO at that point?


Scenario 3: Camera mode A; aperture set to f8, ISO 400 (no auto). Enter live view and start video recording; exposure is being controlled automatically. Display says 1/60, f8, ISO 400. Now frame much brighter scene and see SS rise to as high 1/200. So can I safely assume the camera is actually adjusting shutter speed? What happens if light is little enough to under expose at f/8 @ 1/30, does it boost the ISO at that point?


Scoured the web for this, nada? While I could experiment all day with this to try and determine what it is doing, I am hoping someone actually knows. To bad no EXIF timeline in video.

I have not used camera mode S with movies (or much else), and I am speaking D800 in A mode, but for movies, ISO and shutter are always automatic (they vary as needed). Only camera M mode does what is set. My notion is the camera is always doing what the live view screen says it is doing at the moment.

D800 page 60, Movie Live View: (S mode seems "different")

Heh heh... I believe the D800 works differently than other Nikon's (which is why my title included "D800 aside")

(c;

I did wonder what "D800 aside" could mean? I decided it must be wrong thinking.
Yes, D800 movies do have a little more control. Can adjust aperture in real time for example.

You didn't say what model you were interested in? You found the control was not as expected, but the other models will Not offer MORE control.

D5500 Reference manual
(and D3300 Reference manual page 157 says same thing):



D7200 manual page 162




Same stuff, except aperture is not mentioned on any of these (aperture must be set before beginning recording movies - which frankly ought to totally rule out any thought of mode S.)

I thought the chart should be very useful to your question.
And still, except for Manual mode, movie shutter speed and ISO are going to be automatic, and the LCD screen should show what it is doing at the moment.

Yeah... adjusting aperture requires exiting and returning to live mode. But the only time the display tells you the truth as far as video is concerned seems to be in M mode (due to auto shutter speed and ISO adjustments). What's displayed, settings wise, is what would be used for a still.

OK so auto exposure will work as expected in A, but not S. Goofy, but not work-around-able.

ScottinPollock said:

Yeah... adjusting aperture requires exiting and returning to live mode. But the only time the display tells you the truth as far as video is concerned seems to be in M mode (due to auto shutter speed and ISO adjustments). What's displayed, settings wise, is what would be used for a still.

OK so auto exposure will work as expected in A, but not S. Goofy, but not work-around-able.

Click to expand...

Your LCD screen does not show the current real time values being used? While it is actually recording? What camera model are you speaking of?

My conclusion is rather different. There is no movie difference in A and S and P modes on models below the D800. Other than when aperture can be set, no difference even then.

Otherwise, except for M mode, everything else is fully automatic (but compensation works).

D3300, and yes your conclusion seems different, but only semantically. A works as expected (maintaining set aperture), S, not so much (no priority here).

ScottinPollock said:

D3300, and yes your conclusion seems different, but only semantically. A works as expected (maintaining set aperture), S, not so much (no priority here).

Click to expand...

OK, maybe it is semantics in some degree, but that behavior is only because shutter speed and ISO are automatically adjusted in all movie modes except Manual. Standard definitions do not apply. There's other things different about movies, for example, in Manual mode, ISO is NOT automatic, even if Auto ISO is on elsewhere. Page 159 says this, except it also points out the Movie Setting that will prohibit even Manual adjustments from adjusting shutter speed or ISO (then same as the other modes)... why that menu is necessary is a mystery to me. I suppose it leaves no possible risk that operation is not automatic.

My own notion is that a little $300 camcorder runs circles around using the DSLR for movies. DSLR does have some high ISO advantage, and can allow preference for limited depth of field, and the camcorder is about as fully automatic (cannot even set aperture in any way), but it sure is easier to use, and focus is better (no visible seeking), and if not using an external microphone, no lens zoom audio noise is recorded, and I can carry it in my front pants pocket.

Your D3300 really does not show the real time settings that are automatically active while recording movies? I don't have one, but page 38 of Reference indicates it shows the same as my D800 (bottom row).

WayneF said:

My own notion is that a little $300 camcorder runs circles around using the DSLR for movies.

Click to expand...

Yes and no. They certainly handle better, with much better image stabilization. The auto-focus still overshoots (even in pro level camcorders), but to no where near the level seen in DSLRs.

Using a DSLR for vid is all about quality. You'd have to dump several grand on a camcorder to approach the same video quality of even a D3300. I am not talking about resolution; but the look, the cleanliness, the depth, color range, exposure range.

Your D3300 really does not show the real time settings that are automatically active while recording movies?

Click to expand...

Oh it does, but it often lies in modes other than M (which was the main reason for the OP). For instance, if lighting situations require a shutter speed of less than 1/25 for proper exposure, less than 1/25 is displayed (which is false).

Same is true for ISO if auto ISO is off. Camera is clearly adjusting it, but there is no indication of that on the display.

Also in A mode (and here is where your D800 differs), where you can adjust the aperture with the command dial and see the display change values, but any changed values will not be used in movie recording until you exit from LV and return.

Nikon has had many years to get this right, and I find it inexplicable that the user experience is still so poor. However my experience over the years with their software offerings and (now highly marketed) WiFi capabilities don't fall far from this tree. They are either incompetent or they simply don't care (unfortunately, I suspect it is the latter).

ScottinPollock said:

Oh it does, but it often lies in modes other than M (which was the main reason for the OP). For instance, if lighting situations require a shutter speed of less than 1/25 for proper exposure, less than 1/25 is displayed (which is false).

Same is true for ISO if auto ISO is off. Camera is clearly adjusting it, but there is no indication of that on the display.

Also in A mode (and here is where your D800 differs), where you can adjust the aperture with the command dial and see the display change values, but any changed values will not be used in movie recording until you exit from LV and return.

Click to expand...

Really? Wow! You're saying your movie LCD can actually show totally impossible shutter speeds like say 1/8 second? That does seem incredible. And ISO never changes in the auto modes? I can't even imagine that, sure doesn't sound right. Perhaps it is a unit defect? I would complain to Nikon service about it.

So I wonder if other D3300 also do that? If so, it does sure seem a big deal, and you'd think we would have heard mention of it before... It certainly is not that way in the D800.

Here, the display of values it is using simply always just works (it is very automatic). If not Manual mode, and you change the direction the lens is aimed, the ISO will change, at least if it is within possible range. ISO is usually all over the place. The full range extent is automatic too, i.e., the Auto ISO menu has no meaning to movies, it is not a choice. I see ISO 6400 with the lens cap on, and the 1/30 second shutter speed is blinking.

WayneF said:

Really? Wow! You're saying your movie LCD can actually show totally impossible shutter speeds like say 1/8 second?

Click to expand...

Yes. Essentially what I am seeing is are the camera settings used for taking a still from LV.

Here, the display of values it is using simply always just works... you change the direction the lens is aimed, the ISO will change

Click to expand...

Under what circumstances does the LV display start tracking movie settings versus still settings?

ScottinPollock said:

Under what circumstances does the LV display start tracking movie settings versus still settings?

Click to expand...

On the D800, it occurs when I select the Live View switch that says Movie mode instead of Photo mode, and THEN press the LV center button to select LV. IOW, instantly.





It seems natural to select Movie mode BEFORE I select LV, but doubt I have to. FWIW, I did a little test, and did NOT select Movies first, and selected it after LV. Aimed at a shuttered window in a dim room, and LV mode A changed, from Photo 1/13 f/8 ISO 200 (manual non-Auto ISO selection), to become Movie 1/125 f/3.5, ISO 140. The 1/13 was not possible of course, so aperture changed (I don't know what else it could have done). But the aperture wheel could still adjust it (in D800).
Numbers are a bit surprising, in another minute (after aperture wheel had previously been moved), it was 1/50 f/7.1 ISO 250. I suspect this is about the wheel? I normally do see a lot of 1/30, and I suppose it favors low ISO, but I normally do give setup more attention. This was just a random "turn it on and see what happens".

So yes, the D800 has this extra switch. The D3300 manual for Movies just says something like "press the special Movie Record button to record movies".

Your LCD exposure and display does not switch modes when recording movies? Still seems unimaginable that it does not.

My theory: Have you tried actually in fact recording in movie mode to see what it does then? You do have a choice of two buttons and two modes. Sure, it would be good to see it in advance, still a complaint if you cannot, but it won't actually matter to movies if not actually recording movies.

I see. The D800 has a dedicated movie LV. Makes sense; the D3300 does not, hence the difference. Nikon obviously decided on display info for stills. And no, they do not change under any circumstances.

Not a big deal now that I know what it's doing. Not a lot of value in knowing the numbers if you have no control over them.