DOF discussion

voxmagna

Senior Member
Migrating from consumer to a D750 camera now gives more opportunities to use large apertures and DOF effects. But I am puzzled as to what Nikon's design logic is or perhaps I am just not on the same wavelength as a regular pro shooter:

On my old SLR film cameras I could manually set the aperture and focus and the lens ring would show the DOF. With my modern D750 using 'G' lenses I have the D750 preview button. But can anybody tell me they can really see DOF for each aperture setting? This camera has a really nice Oled display and and information button, plus a top lcd and in viewfinder display. The D750 knows about the Nikon lenses I fit, so why can't I see a DOF bar in the viewfinder or on any display?

Have I missed a setting, do most of the other Nikon's not show a DOF bar, or do I have to wait for a Nikon firmware hack to get one!
 

J-see

Senior Member
Migrating from consumer to a D750 camera now gives more opportunities to use large apertures and DOF effects. But I am puzzled as to what Nikon's design logic is or perhaps I am just not on the same wavelength as a regular pro shooter:

On my old SLR film cameras I could manually set the aperture and focus and the lens ring would show the DOF. With my modern D750 using 'G' lenses I have the D750 preview button. But can anybody tell me they can really see DOF for each aperture setting? This camera has a really nice Oled display and and information button, plus a top lcd and in viewfinder display. The D750 knows about the Nikon lenses I fit, so why can't I see a DOF bar in the viewfinder or on any display?

Have I missed a setting, do most of the other Nikon's not show a DOF bar, or do I have to wait for a Nikon firmware hack to get one!

You can always shoot live if DoF really matters. Then you see the shot as it'll be taken (with some limitations). For normal shooting I rarely check DoF and if, I simply use the preview button.

How do you think a DoF indicator (bar) would work in the viewfinder?
 
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BackdoorArts

Senior Member
It's a fact of the format. Your "DoF bar" is called knowing your aperture, particularly given the presence of the DoF preview button. As was said, there's always Live View if you want to get anal about precisely what is and isn't in focus (and many people are and do just that).

Yes, the camera knows what lens is mounted (assuming it's the proper type). Are you suggesting that Nikon install a DoF calculator that will display the total DoF (in inches? feet? cm? m?) based on the current focal length, calculated distance to the subject (which requires you engage AF) and aperture? There's an app for that, you know.

I suspect the subset of photographers who need that function because the available tools (i.e. that button on the front and Live View) aren't sufficient are likely so small that to clutter the firmware with something like that to be engaged on every depression of the shutter is impractical, particularly since it would need to replace something more needful in the viewfinder. Now, perhaps in a mirrorless with a digital viewfinder where information can be displayed anywhere this could be an option.

One other issue with a preview is that it requires the physical closing of the aperture, and at some point that's going to interfere with the AF function as well (though the mechanics could be coordinated to AF then close, but what does one do in AF-C mode?!).

I file this in the "people in hell want ice water" category.
 

hark

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
Contributor
I transitioned over from a 35mm SLR and made use of that aperture ring feature, and when you made use of something, it is difficult to substitute a different method.

As was mentioned, you have 3 options:

  1. Use the preview button. I find this method offers a view that is way too dark to effectively see what is and isn't in focus.
  2. Use Live View so you see what the image will look like. It can apply the DOF to the image where as looking through the viewfinder doesn't. The down side is it uses more battery power.
  3. Use a DOF calculator app for a smartphone or an ipod. You need to supply some of the info then it calculates the results. This yields similar info as the aperture ring, but you need to supply more of the info for calculating than when we used the aperture ring.
Just like many things in life, times are changing and we need to keep up with those changes or get left behind. Unfortunately they no longer offer aperture rings on lenses. Perhaps it is less expensive to manufacture lenses without them, I don't know. But hopefully you can segue over to one of these alternate methods of calculating depth of field.
 

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
Migrating from consumer to a D750 camera now gives more opportunities to use large apertures and DOF effects. But I am puzzled as to what Nikon's design logic is or perhaps I am just not on the same wavelength as a regular pro shooter:

On my old SLR film cameras I could manually set the aperture and focus and the lens ring would show the DOF. With my modern D750 using 'G' lenses I have the D750 preview button. But can anybody tell me they can really see DOF for each aperture setting? This camera has a really nice Oled display and and information button, plus a top lcd and in viewfinder display. The D750 knows about the Nikon lenses I fit, so why can't I see a DOF bar in the viewfinder or on any display?

Have I missed a setting, do most of the other Nikon's not show a DOF bar, or do I have to wait for a Nikon firmware hack to get one!
I think the root problem, and I say this having read several of your posts, is that you haven't come to grips with the fact that digital photography is not "electronic film" photography. There will be no "firmware hack" for this whole depth of field issue you have -- not now not ever -- because digital cameras operate very differently in many respects than do film cameras.

My advice: Put your expectations aside, find your beginners mind and learn anew.

,,,,
 

voxmagna

Senior Member
Thanks for all your replies. I know digital still photography and film/movie is different but it would be a Luddite who does not appreciate convergence. As soon as film went to electronic sensors and processing, photography became very different with shortfalls in image quality compared to film, but upsides in removing chemical processing and opportunities for new features and techniques to get better pictures.

A viewfinder DoF indicator could be a horizontal graduated line, as you open the stop at the focus point the DOF margin is shown as a line of varying width, similar to the exposure indicator.

Live view is clear but you cannot explore DoF without scrolling the image in magnify mode after the shot is taken, whilst bright sunlight behind the display can make it harder to use. I agree battery power goes up quite considerably using the screen display, so is best avoided.

I also found the preview dark, but I think if preview is too dark you are on a small stop and there will be plenty of DoF

I appreciate your comments - Thank you.
 

J-see

Senior Member
Thanks for all your replies. I know digital still photography and film/movie is different but it would be a Luddite who does not appreciate convergence. As soon as film went to electronic sensors and processing, photography became very different with shortfalls in image quality compared to film, but upsides in removing chemical processing and opportunities for new features and techniques to get better pictures.

A viewfinder DoF indicator could be a horizontal graduated line, as you open the stop at the focus point the DOF margin is shown as a line of varying width, similar to the exposure indicator.

Live view is clear but you cannot explore DoF without scrolling the image in magnify mode after the shot is taken, whilst bright sunlight behind the display can make it harder to use. I agree battery power goes up quite considerably using the screen display, so is best avoided.

I also found the preview dark, but I think if preview is too dark you are on a small stop and there will be plenty of DoF

I appreciate your comments - Thank you.

If you use exposure preview while shooting live, you see the shot with the aperture and shutter applied. Unless I'm terribly wrong, during exposure preview, the lens closes down to the selected aperture resulting in the DoF visible on your LCD.

From what I remember, I used to check during live if all was in focus. And that is before taking the shot.
 
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hark

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
Contributor
I forgot to mention that what I miss most about the aperture ring is the ability to set hyperfocal distance. :(
 
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