Yellowstone National Park photo
- Thread starter Montana Michael
- Start date
Don Kuykendall_RIP
RIP :(
I really want to see more of the geyser. It would be a much more interesting shot if the entire geyser was showing with some sky showing above it. Right now the sky is so intense that it is all I can see.
Montana Michael
Senior Member
so something more like this?
Sure seems vivid, but dark. I think it was supposed to look like bright sun?
IMO, about one stop more exposure would help the first one quite a bit.
Guessing, and reaching, but if it was not Auto ISO, and if camera A mode at f/5.6, then the 1/4000 second limit might be holding it back? But the way the meter system works is that it holds back bright stuff to be about the middle, often requiring our attention to compensate it.
It is also possible that you might be adjusting it on a too-bright (uncalibrated) LCD monitor. LCD monitors are notoriously adjusted too bright. Then others with calibrated monitors (and photo print shops too) see your work as too dark.
In Elements, typing CTRL L on the image brings up Adobe Levels. Moving the White Point down to where the data starts brightens it, and can often be a normal procedure. This is the same as Exposure in Adobe Raw. But as shown, I went farther, which clips the data, but this one is only clipping the blue sky. I mostly stopped short of clipping the yellow. The water is just below 200. This new white point (204 here) will become the new 255 right end point (stretching the data upwards, clipping all brighter than it, because data is limited to 255). The preview can show that new result as you go, so you adjust it by eye.
Look at it with the original white point about 170 too. We have to call that excessive, but I actually like that better. It comes to life then.
You can hold down the ALT key (speaking Windows, and ALT is true of the Adobe Raw Exposure tool too) and then move the White Point, and the display changes to show WHAT you are clipping (as you move it). That is important, clipping loses detail (in those tones), often bad, but some stuff, some clipping doesn't matter, even helps.
IMO, about one stop more exposure would help the first one quite a bit.
Guessing, and reaching, but if it was not Auto ISO, and if camera A mode at f/5.6, then the 1/4000 second limit might be holding it back? But the way the meter system works is that it holds back bright stuff to be about the middle, often requiring our attention to compensate it.
It is also possible that you might be adjusting it on a too-bright (uncalibrated) LCD monitor. LCD monitors are notoriously adjusted too bright. Then others with calibrated monitors (and photo print shops too) see your work as too dark.
In Elements, typing CTRL L on the image brings up Adobe Levels. Moving the White Point down to where the data starts brightens it, and can often be a normal procedure. This is the same as Exposure in Adobe Raw. But as shown, I went farther, which clips the data, but this one is only clipping the blue sky. I mostly stopped short of clipping the yellow. The water is just below 200. This new white point (204 here) will become the new 255 right end point (stretching the data upwards, clipping all brighter than it, because data is limited to 255). The preview can show that new result as you go, so you adjust it by eye.
Look at it with the original white point about 170 too. We have to call that excessive, but I actually like that better. It comes to life then.
You can hold down the ALT key (speaking Windows, and ALT is true of the Adobe Raw Exposure tool too) and then move the White Point, and the display changes to show WHAT you are clipping (as you move it). That is important, clipping loses detail (in those tones), often bad, but some stuff, some clipping doesn't matter, even helps.
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Montana Michael
Senior Member
WayneF, thank you for your input but i have to be honest here, i dont quite understand anything you said. 
i havent used elements much and i will try to see what you are talking about when i can get on my pc that has elements on it. how do i check or know if my monitor isnt calibrated right?
i havent used elements much and i will try to see what you are talking about when i can get on my pc that has elements on it. how do i check or know if my monitor isnt calibrated right?Montana Michael
Senior Member
i was in full manual mode other than i let the camera decide iso. i try to take every shot in manual now so i can play with the settings and see the results. when i can i will post the original raw picture with no white balance set so you can see it. i chose the shutter speed on my idea of trying to get the water motion to stop. (wanted the water to show all the drops) and according to the meter the f/stop was at the correct for exposure. i dont always listen to the camera meter and will adjust even farther but i took so many pictures that day i dont recall if i went with the meter or adjusted to what i liked on this picture.
Sorry, I didn't mean to cause confusion. I was saying the image looked too dark to me. It was after all bright sun under a clear blue sky.
The Levels tool is a very important basic tool. Levels is the classic way to adjust image brightness and contrast and tones. Same tool is in Photoshop, and all better photo editors.
Just type CTRL L on the keyboard on the image open in Elements. That brings up the Levels dialog to adjust that image.
If you use Adobe Raw instead, then the Exposure slider is the same thing as the white point in Levels. You'd use that instead. Better done there in Raw than later in Elements. You can hold the ALT key there too, to see WHAT you are clipping with greater exposure.
Here is a quicky explanation of the tool Photoshop Elements Help | Adjusting shadows and light (down the page about Levels)
Sometimes the non-Adobe explanations are the best ones http://www.google.com/search?q=elements+levels
If your monitor were calibrated, you would know it (you would have bought the kit and would have done it yourself). If you notice lots of other web photos you see on your monitor are too bright, and if you notice the images you adjust, and then have printed, look too dark on the print, then calibration is the main suspect. It is not a huge difference, but a noticeable one.
Short of that, just backing off a little bit on the LCD monitor brightness can have a very good effect too.
You buy a calibration software kit (maybe $100 class) which includes a light sensor on a USB cable. You hang that sensor over your monitor screen as directed, and run the software. Takes a few minutes while the software outputs various colors to the monitor, which the sensor reads and measures the actual screen output, and sends back the results on the USB cable. Then the software determines how wrong it was, and makes corrections to the system video driver, to make it be right (colors and brightness). You repeat this calibration every few months.
I use an old Datacolor Spyder 2 calibration kit. I think they are up to version 4 now, like this:
Amazon.com : Datacolor Spyder4Express S4X100 Display Calibration Device : Photographic Light Meter Accessories : Camera & Photo if you have ONE monitor,
or this if you have multiple monitors you want to use it on:
Amazon.com : Datacolor Spyder4Pro S4P100 Colorimeter for Display Calibration : Photographic Light Meters : Camera & Photo
These two are the same thing except the usage licensing for multiple monitors.
And there are a few other brands, similar kits. I imagine they all do what they say. You can find online reviews, where they go on and on.
They also have more elaborate/expensive kits which involves calibrating the printer driver too. I don't need that myself (much more trouble than its worth), because other than quickies, I have stuff printed. The monitor calibration means if I adjust the images correctly as seen on the monitor, then the send out printing will come out good, as expected (assuming we use sRGB). I am very happy with the lower priced basic kit, only for the monitor(s).
Most, if not all LCD monitors come adjusted too bright for photos. Which means we see them wrong, and likely adjust them too dark. So the purpose of calibrating the monitor is to make your photo adjustments conform to the rest of the world. So your prints will come out looking about like what you saw on your monitor.
FWIW, I also set the cameras LCD brightness to -1, to better match my calibrated monitor.
Hope that helps.
The Levels tool is a very important basic tool. Levels is the classic way to adjust image brightness and contrast and tones. Same tool is in Photoshop, and all better photo editors.
Just type CTRL L on the keyboard on the image open in Elements. That brings up the Levels dialog to adjust that image.
If you use Adobe Raw instead, then the Exposure slider is the same thing as the white point in Levels. You'd use that instead. Better done there in Raw than later in Elements. You can hold the ALT key there too, to see WHAT you are clipping with greater exposure.
Here is a quicky explanation of the tool Photoshop Elements Help | Adjusting shadows and light (down the page about Levels)
Sometimes the non-Adobe explanations are the best ones http://www.google.com/search?q=elements+levels
If your monitor were calibrated, you would know it (you would have bought the kit and would have done it yourself). If you notice lots of other web photos you see on your monitor are too bright, and if you notice the images you adjust, and then have printed, look too dark on the print, then calibration is the main suspect. It is not a huge difference, but a noticeable one.
Short of that, just backing off a little bit on the LCD monitor brightness can have a very good effect too.
You buy a calibration software kit (maybe $100 class) which includes a light sensor on a USB cable. You hang that sensor over your monitor screen as directed, and run the software. Takes a few minutes while the software outputs various colors to the monitor, which the sensor reads and measures the actual screen output, and sends back the results on the USB cable. Then the software determines how wrong it was, and makes corrections to the system video driver, to make it be right (colors and brightness). You repeat this calibration every few months.
I use an old Datacolor Spyder 2 calibration kit. I think they are up to version 4 now, like this:
Amazon.com : Datacolor Spyder4Express S4X100 Display Calibration Device : Photographic Light Meter Accessories : Camera & Photo if you have ONE monitor,
or this if you have multiple monitors you want to use it on:
Amazon.com : Datacolor Spyder4Pro S4P100 Colorimeter for Display Calibration : Photographic Light Meters : Camera & Photo
These two are the same thing except the usage licensing for multiple monitors.
And there are a few other brands, similar kits. I imagine they all do what they say. You can find online reviews, where they go on and on.
They also have more elaborate/expensive kits which involves calibrating the printer driver too. I don't need that myself (much more trouble than its worth), because other than quickies, I have stuff printed. The monitor calibration means if I adjust the images correctly as seen on the monitor, then the send out printing will come out good, as expected (assuming we use sRGB). I am very happy with the lower priced basic kit, only for the monitor(s).
Most, if not all LCD monitors come adjusted too bright for photos. Which means we see them wrong, and likely adjust them too dark. So the purpose of calibrating the monitor is to make your photo adjustments conform to the rest of the world. So your prints will come out looking about like what you saw on your monitor.
FWIW, I also set the cameras LCD brightness to -1, to better match my calibrated monitor.
Hope that helps.
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