Raw + JPEG

tea2085

Senior Member
When one sets image quality to Raw+JPEG with the 3300, the viewed picture is the JPEG photo. How do you access the RAW picture? Paul
 

J-see

Senior Member
You have to upload it to your comp and use a program that can handle the NEF files. Capture NX-D as an example. Free to download and use, at the Nikon site.
 

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
Just to be clear, you're not looking at the JPEG but a smaller JPEG preview based on the settings that are used to generate the full-sized JPEG (whether or not you are producing one). This is true whether you are shooting RAW, JPEG or both.
 

WayneF

Senior Member
Just to be clear, you're not looking at the JPEG but a smaller JPEG preview based on the settings that are used to generate the full-sized JPEG (whether or not you are producing one). This is true whether you are shooting RAW, JPEG or both.

NEF yes, but is that really true of JPG? You can zoom to full size on the rear LCD, it must be the large JPG. And Exiftool shows the JPG in NEF, but it seems not to find another one in JPG.
 

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
NEF yes, but is that really true of JPG? You can zoom to full size on the rear LCD, it must be the large JPG. And Exiftool shows the JPG in NEF, but it seems not to find another one in JPG.

Do I know definitively? No. But my understanding is that the rear preview is always a preview image and not the actual. Prove me wrong and I'm perfectly OK with it. You can zoom to 100%, but is that really 100%?! Particularly on a 28 megapixel image?!
 

WayneF

Senior Member
Do I know definitively? No. But my understanding is that the rear preview is always a preview image and not the actual. Prove me wrong and I'm perfectly OK with it. You can zoom to 100%, but is that really 100%?! Particularly on a 28 megapixel image?!

No, I can't prove it, sorry. :) Proof of what is can work, but proof of what isn't is pretty difficult. :) But my notion is otherwise, because the 100% zoom argument is mighty suggestive that there is no need for a smaller image. Do you really believe that zoom is an interpolated image? That large? Sure does not look like it. :) If NEF can zoom on the large JPG, why can't JPG?
Plus ExifTool (which likes to show things like that) does not report one in there, except for NEF. There are obvious reasons for Raw, but I can't think of one for JPG.
 
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Eyelight

Senior Member
If it is always just a preview, why does it take a moment to load when you zoom? It acts like you get the preview image for the after-shot review, but then loads more info when you ask it to zoom.

Along with this thought, the manuals states in the troubleshooting that the NEF image is not played back if you shoot RAW+JPEG, more or less indicating that if you shoot RAW only, the RAW image is what you see on playback. Testing this, I made one shot set to RAW and during the review hit the zoom button and had a noticeable pause with the little hour glass before it zoomed. Took a second shot with it set to RAW+JPEG/Basic, hit the zoom button and it was noticeably faster loading the zoomable image.

What think ye???
 

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
OK, so I did lots of digging and found nothing, so I decided to do a rather unscientific experiment and shot an image with the camera set to RAW+JPEG Fine, sending RAW to one card and JPEG to another. I then took the card with the jpeg image and attempted to edit it, creating a negative of the original image, saving it over the original and then putting the card back in the camera. My expectation was that if the camera showed the altered image then we'd know it was the actual image and if not then it would be a stored preview. What I got was a message saying that the file was invalid, so obviously the camera is looking to read the original file.

I then did consecutive shots varying the size and resolution of the JPEG file...
A) JPEG Fine + Large
B) JPEG Normal + Medium
C) JPEG Basic + Small

My expectation is that if the camera is reading the file then it should take longer to read A than B, and longer to read B than C. What I found is that it took just as long to load zooms of A and C, while B loaded very quickly. Figure that one out!!

Anyway, I'm more inclined to believe that when reviewing a JPEG that you're actually getting the full image, while with the RAW you will always get the preview image stored within the file.
 

Eyelight

Senior Member
OK, so I did lots of digging and found nothing, so I decided to do a rather unscientific experiment and shot an image with the camera set to RAW+JPEG Fine, sending RAW to one card and JPEG to another. I then took the card with the jpeg image and attempted to edit it, creating a negative of the original image, saving it over the original and then putting the card back in the camera. My expectation was that if the camera showed the altered image then we'd know it was the actual image and if not then it would be a stored preview. What I got was a message saying that the file was invalid, so obviously the camera is looking to read the original file.

I then did consecutive shots varying the size and resolution of the JPEG file...
A) JPEG Fine + Large
B) JPEG Normal + Medium
C) JPEG Basic + Small

My expectation is that if the camera is reading the file then it should take longer to read A than B, and longer to read B than C. What I found is that it took just as long to load zooms of A and C, while B loaded very quickly. Figure that one out!!

Anyway, I'm more inclined to believe that when reviewing a JPEG that you're actually getting the full image, while with the RAW you will always get the preview image stored within the file.

If the JPEG was edited with other that Nikon software, it probably did not have a few bits of info the camera was looking to see.

Which camera were you using? And, did you try shooting RAW only to see how the read time was affected?

I'm leaning towards older cameras with slower processors may have used the preview, but newer faster cameras use the full image. Purely speculation though.
 

WayneF

Senior Member
If the JPEG was edited with other that Nikon software, it probably did not have a few bits of info the camera was looking to see.

Adobe omits the Exif Manufacturers Data, and much of the rest. Photoshop Bridge has a Preferences menu where you can select to retain or omit very many Exif data items. Most defaults are Off. But the Manufactures Data is not a choice (for example, shutter count).
 

aroy

Senior Member
I think that for preview and subsequent display, the camera converts the RAW image to jpeg, using the camera setting at the time the shot was taken. That is if RAW was used. For jpeg I have no idea of whether it uses the jpeg stored on the card.
 

J-see

Senior Member
I see a representation of the NEF too when I check my windows maps albeit not a perfect one. Maybe it works a bit according the same principle and some codex is at work showing you a direct conversion.

That way it wouldn't necessarily need to create anything outside its working memory or if, maybe it stores something in a (hidden) temp map.
 
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tea2085

Senior Member
This is all WAY over my head. For me to get the best image in raw (prior to editing), I open it in NX2 and then do what? Paul
 

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
.... to get the best image in raw (prior to editing), I open it in NX2 and then do what?
I'm entirely sure I understand what you're asking.

There's not much you can do to, "get the best image in RAW" except take good shots. Make sure the exposure is not blowing out, that the focus is correct... That sort of thing. Then you open the RAW file in NX2 so you can process it. This is where, in a typical workflow, you first do "global" adjustments to things like white balance, exposure, contrast, color (balance and saturation) and remove elements you don't want (sensor spots, distracting elements, etc.). There's sometimes cropping and resizing to do as well and Sharpening, generally, is the last step. The RAW file is then converted/saved to JPG or TIFF, or what have you, depending on final output.
.....
 

nickt

Senior Member
This is all WAY over my head. For me to get the best image in raw (prior to editing), I open it in NX2 and then do what? Paul

NX2 will show your images with the camera jpg settings applied to the raw file when you open it. So you will see the effect of any picture controls that you have set in the camera. Since it is a raw file, you are free to do what you want with it. But if you are happy with it, do nothing. It should look pretty good 'as is' since the camera jpg settings are applied. Other non-Nikon editors like Lightroom or Photoshop do not show any of your jpg settings applied so you pretty much must do something to them or they will look like crap.
 
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