Me vs. Facebook

Browncoat

Senior Member
Yup, I'm taking on The Man. I just filed a DMCA complaint with Facebook.

As mentioned in this thread, I did a recent photo shoot for the MMA promoter who employs my services. In case you're not familiar with how all of this works, the promoter is just an organization who puts on the shows. They have pools of fighters from gyms, make fights (they call it matchmaking of all things), rent the venue, all that stuff. I do all kinds of work for this promoter, including web and graphic design in addition to photography. Anyway...

One of the gyms took the photos I posted on Facebook. I posted them in my own album (with copyright watermark), and in the fight promoter's album (with their logo). This gym created an album on their Facebook fan page called "2011 Promo" and put my photos in there. After some browsing around, they have several other photos of mine in other albums on their page.

Not wanting to create a bad vibe, I contacted the promoter first and they back me 100%. They paid for the photo shoot, and have licensed the photos via our contract. For this gym to call it their own "promo" was a bad move. I didn't want to cause undue friction between the gym and the promoter, not at least without letting them know where I stood. They're stand-up guys, and I'm glad they've got my back on this.

I used the "report" feature found on Facebook fan pages and filed a DMCA complaint. We'll see how far this goes. If the images aren't removed, I'm sending the gym a bill for about $5,000 for image licensing.
 

ohkphoto

Snow White
To all photographers: if you keep posting photos to facebook and flickr, it's going to happen. At least make it harder for them to "steal" your photos. Any photos I want to put on FB, I put on my blog and post the link to my blog. There's also a widget you can get called "blog protector" that disables the copy/right click feature. FB is great for communication and marketing, you just need to use it wisely.

Good luck, Anthony. On a different note, you should feel flattered that someone else wanted your photos badly enough to steal them LOL. They are great shots and I can't blame them . . . maybe they're just ignorant of copyright/license laws.

You do realize you're not going to get help from FB . . . they've got their butts covered and don't really care about your (or anyone else's) copyright concerns. PPA worked very hard to get FB to include DMCA.
 

Browncoat

Senior Member
Ya, I know I'm not going to get anywhere with FB.

Normally, I don't care. My photos are all over the place on FB. The fighters use my shots for their profile pics, other gyms use and tag them all the time. What got my shorts in a wad with these guys was that they put them in an album called "2011 Promo" as if they paid for them, or that they were somehow affiliated with the photo shoot. If you want to share my work, fine. But don't try to take credit for it.
 

Rick M

Senior Member
Good luck Anthony, would be nice to see you get results, I'm so sick of our societies blatent disrespect for others and/or their property. Keep us posted!
 

jdeg

^ broke something
Staff member
I've heard that fb is pretty good about taking copyrighted material down. GL with that Anthony. I would def feel the same way if someone did that with my photos. It's a slap in the face and blatant disrespect to you.
 

Browncoat

Senior Member
Update: Got a msg from Facebook requesting the specific URLs of the images in question. Hopefully this is a step in the right direction.
 

Browncoat

Senior Member
I'm actually impressed with the speed of their action. The biggest delay was my own, because I'm moving soon and was busy for several days trying to get the new studio up and running. Honestly, I was expecting a snub from Facebook...considering I'm just user #5,126,843 of 500 million.

Social media is practically a must for business these days. But sharing sites like Flickr and Facebook have to be monitored closely for situations just like this are likely to occur. Although I'm sure that sending the offender a big fat bill would've gotten the point across just as well.
 

Browncoat

Senior Member
Part Duex:

These MMA guys have been giving me fits again. I do work for a variety of clients, but it seems like its my MMA photos that are always finding their way into places they shouldn't be. Perhaps it's my own fault, or maybe I'm just getting my shorts in a twist over nothing.

The promoter I work for wants his images from events posted to Facebook. I understand that, because it's good marketing for them. They pay for the photos, so how they choose to use them is fine with me. The fighters themselves continue to make these photos their profile pics and tag them, which generates more "likes" for my Facebook fan page and generates more looks for my business too. So far it's win/win. But...the fighters are not exclusive to this promotion that I work with, they fight at other events too. So when these other promoters ask the fighters for photos to use on posters and stuff...guess whose photos they use? Yup, mine.

Other promoters are using my images that I own the copyright to (that someone else paid to license) on their promotional materials. I can't really blame the promoter, because odds are, they don't know the source of the images. That's poor business practice, but it is what it is. They probably have no idea that they really should be paying to use them.

So here I sit like a schmuck...again. Do I contact the promoter and demand payment?
 

ohkphoto

Snow White
They pay for the photos, so how they choose to use them is fine with me.

Perhaps this is part of the problem, Anthony. When you say, "pay for the photos", what exactly do you mean? Prints or a specific license. I'm guessing license, and if so, what kind? Check fotoquote for specifics.

The fighters who are using your photos for their profiles, etc. need to be told (by you) when you give them their "personal use license", that it's exactly that. Personal use ONLY. You may have to tell them also what they can NOT do with the photos. . . Like give them to another promoter. Include a couple of business cards and let your fighters know that if other promoters want to use your photos of them, you would be happy to work them. Since it's a problem, put it in writing right on the license. Most people think that if they have the photo, they can do anything they want with them, including give it to publications and promoters.

I had a similar situation where the local newspaper not only used my photo for a special feature, but cropped the copyright out and gave me no credit. I sent them a very nice email along with a bill for a one time commercial usage license. They reprinted the photo with a statement that attributed the photo to me --in essence, a nice 1/4 page ad.

Yes, you need to deal with this immediately unless you plan to work for nothing. Use your people skills to educate the people you photograph as well as the businesses who want to use your photos.
 

Browncoat

Senior Member
Use your people skills...

I'm screwed.

And yes, the promoter pays for an unlimited usage license that extends to all promotional materials. I retain all copyrights. Their promotions are limited to Facebook, posters (which I design for them), and website use (which I manage for them)...occasionally, a t-shirt.

Ultimately, I think I need to have the fighters sign a usage agreement along with the rest of their fight contract. So at the very least, I'll be protected on paper and at least have something to fall back on when this happens again (and it will). My business is to the point now where I need to form an LLC and start getting my ducks in a row on that front anyway.

I really hate watermarks. All of my fight photos that are on Facebook have my logo and the promoter's logo on them, but it seems to not be doing the trick. I may have to start upping the ante and watermark them to discourage this kind of thing.
 

Marcel

Happily retired
Staff member
Super Mod
I'm screwed.

And yes, the promoter pays for an unlimited usage license that extends to all promotional materials. I retain all copyrights. Their promotions are limited to Facebook, posters (which I design for them), and website use (which I manage for them)...occasionally, a t-shirt.

Ultimately, I think I need to have the fighters sign a usage agreement along with the rest of their fight contract. So at the very least, I'll be protected on paper and at least have something to fall back on when this happens again (and it will). My business is to the point now where I need to form an LLC and start getting my ducks in a row on that front anyway.

I'm not a lawyer, but if the promoter bought the "unlimited" use, would that make him guilty of sharing this right of his with the fighters? Maybe that's how they see it…
These things are complicated and can be confusing for the mere mortals.
 

Browncoat

Senior Member
No, I don't think so...especially considering we're talking about Facebook and sharing here. I don't hold the promoter responsible for any of this.
 
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