LiveView vs. the Viewfinder

I was bored so I mounted my D5200 on my tripod and started messing with LiveView. Since I've had the camera I always shot thru the viewfinder and in manual mode. So, these are the two things that I noticed.

First was the exposure compensation meter was very different for both. I guess I should have told you that all settings were the same, the only difference was switching back and forth from LiveView to the viewfinder. Also, I understand you are suppose to block the viewfinder when using LiveView but it was off by a lot.

The other thing I noticed (could be I'm just nuts), I was focusing on a very specific spot on a umbrella handle. When using LiveView, I would zoom in and move the single block to exactly where I wanted. Even though it didn't look very clear at the time, after I took the picture and reviewed it, the picture was very sharp. When I did the same thing thru the viewfinder, single spot right on the same spot on the umbrella handle, when reviewing the pictures it didn't seem as sharp to me. I repeated it several times and every time it was the same.

So, thats that ..... just found it odd and I'm curious if anyone has noticed this or if I'm doing something wrong. Anyways, thanks for looking this over.
Bill

I never noticed this on my Nikon's but I have to admit like you I was shooting manual, I just used the viewfinder and checked the shot on the screen. I rarely ever used the live view, so I can't say one way or another.

But welcome to Nikonites! I hope you'll have a blast with us!

Nonno said:

First was the exposure compensation meter was very different for both. I guess I should have told you that all settings were the same, the only difference was switching back and forth from LiveView to the viewfinder. Also, I understand you are suppose to block the viewfinder when using LiveView but it was off by a lot.

Click to expand...

Different how? If in Manual camera mode, viewfinder shows the tick marks allowing easy compensation (up to a point).
If in Live View, camera shifts into Auto ISO (wanted or not), automatic again, and the only compensation is with the EV button. Auto ISO will make a big difference.
That EV button is seen in the top LCD display for viewfinder, and seen in the rear LCD for Live View, but I don't see any other difference. Auto ISO is the huge factor.

The mirror is up in Live View, and the viewfinder path is not a factor, so I suspect blocking the viewfinder is not important if in Live View mode. I've never worried about it, it is shifted out of gear if Live View.

The other thing I noticed (could be I'm just nuts), I was focusing on a very specific spot on a umbrella handle. When using LiveView, I would zoom in and move the single block to exactly where I wanted. Even though it didn't look very clear at the time, after I took the picture and reviewed it, the picture was very sharp. When I did the same thing thru the viewfinder, single spot right on the same spot on the umbrella handle, when reviewing the pictures it didn't seem as sharp to me. I repeated it several times and every time it was the same.

Click to expand...

I have not noticed that myself, the viewfinder is mighty good, specially built do do this job. Generally, but especially for action. Specifically, viewfinder focusing is greatly faster than viewfinder. Viewfinder has dedicated focusing sensors in it, called phase shift. It can know immediately which way it is out of focus, and how much, and can quickly seek to the correct place. Like day and night.

Live View, all it has to look at is the pixels in the image in the sensor. It has to experiment around trying this and that, looking for sharper contrast divisions, to determine what is better (called Contrast Detection focusing).
Here is one link: Autofocus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
More at contrast detection vs phase shift focus - Google Search

It is good to know the difference. Trying to convert a fan maybe, but Viewfinder phase shift is the DSLR way. Contrast detection is the compact camera way. For example, movie focusing (Live View) is simply awful - use manual focus when you can.

You will notice the focusing options are different between viewfinder and live view. It is entirely extremely different situations, different words. Viewfinder has more actual options, some of which may not be particularly best for your situation. Like AF-C can allow focus to follow moving targets (beginners always imagine they need this, but few shots are action), but it also can allow the shutter activation when not yet focused (not often the best plan). Some attention to these options is necessary.

I stay in single focus point AF-S most of time, just right for my pictures. I can deal with it.

The Live View LCD is hard to see in the sun (and your reading glasses are probably necessary). However, a couple of advantages, we can hold Live View over our head to see better in a crowd. And if focusing on tiny things not even seen in the view finder (like the stars at night), we can zoom in if in Live View, and manual focusing is helped greatly.

But in general, the way to bet is the viewfinder.

Hey again ..... Thanks Bill16 for the nice welcome and thank you to WayneF for all that handy information.

I figured out why it was +2 in LiveView and 0 thru the viewfinder. The flash. I had the on camera flash up. Apparently when LiveView sees the flash pop up it automatically adds +2 to the meter, so that you don't over expose. Why it doesn't thru the viewfinder I have no idea.

Now I have to do more comparisons of focus thru the viewfinder and LiveView. Thanks again.

Where was your shutter speed with respect to 1/60 second? I'm thinking lower.

What enabling the flash does do is to enforce the 1/60 second Minimum Shutter Speed With Flash.
(except in camera M or S modes)

In a dimmer light where flash might be reasonable, the shutter speed was surely slow, like 1/8 or 1/15 second maybe.

Enabling the flash raises shutter speed to 1/60 second minimum. If using flash, we don't need it to be so slow. But if already brighter and faster, shutter speed will stay the same (i.e., it was a Minimum).

Viewfinder and Live View appear to work the same in this respect (if in LV Photo mode ... video mode is different).

Some ifs and buts, Slow Sync or Rear Curtain Sync modes will leave the slow shutter where it was.
And Auto ISO can work differently on different models.

Hi,
"Perverse and foolish, oft I strayed..." but I've just returned to SLR photography and bought myself a D5200 which I'm really impressed with - even though I'm still getting familiar with it.

I was interested in Wayne's comments about using the zoom button with manual focusing as this is also mentioned in the September issue of "N Photo" magazine.

I tried this today by setting up the camera on a tripod, zooming in to the top end of my lens (105mm), then using the zoom in button to its maximum and using manual focus. I found that I couldn't get the focus pin sharp.

Is this normal with the amount of magnification the zoom in button gives you, or have I got a problem with the lens?

(Also tried auto focus, but still a bit blurred)

Looks a good forum. I look forward to reading more!

Thanks

Pete

Grandalf said:

Hi,
I tried this today by setting up the camera on a tripod, zooming in to the top end of my lens (105mm), then using the zoom in button to its maximum and using manual focus. I found that I couldn't get the focus pin sharp.

Click to expand...

Should work, but maybe not quite maximum zoom to practice the first time, to see it the first time once. You need to be looking at fine detail, not big vague shapeless areas.

Maybe first time, indoors, several feet from a bookshelf, to see the text on the book spines. See what auto focus does, then try to match it manually. Re-aim the camera slightly, to be sure you are seeing small fine detail (the text).
It is contrast focusing, the book text becomes darker (maximum contrast), and more clear, out of nothingness.

As to "pin sharp", remember you are looking at a great magnification. At max magnification, you will see plenty of noise spots dancing around, it will not be pretty, but best focus should be clearly obvious. Then, to see and know, actually take the picture, and examine it in the computer (AF turned off of course, so it won't change it). This indoor picture may need slow shutter or high ISO, but it won't matter for this.

Thanks Wayne,
Will keep experimenting!

Hey Grandalf......since I was just messing with this the other day, I have to say that when zoomed all the way in it is not sharp. Although when reviewing it and I zoom all the way in, it looks very sharp. That is what is most important to me, since I only shoot thru the viewfinder and to be honest even thru the viewfinder things aren't perfectly sharp. This is not a camera problem, I wear glasses but am not comfortable shooting in them. So even when I adjust the vf I can't get it to where it would be perfect. So I do my best and trust in the lens and zoom in all the way when I review. Hope that makes sense.

It does indeed, Nonno. It's good to know it's a viewfinder/screen thing rather than a lens one. I'm hoping to get some photos on a stock agency so sharpness was of paramount importance. I should have experimented further instead of panicking!
Thanks to both of you for your reassurances.

When you do manual focusing in Live View, you are actually seeing what the sensor sees. So you can get the focus as sharp as the lense focus ring will allow. On many lenses (to make AF fast) the focus throw is very short, so it is very difficult to get the focus spot on. If you use older manual focus lenses, which have a large throw, you will get razor sharp focus. My 105mm AIS macro has about 330 degrees of throw, so you can focus easily, where as the 35mmG has a short throw and focusing manually is a pain.

One thing that I noticed is that the maximum zoom in live view; at least on the D3300; has a lot of artifacts, there fore I use last but one step for critical focusing.

One remedy is to get a third party screen with coarse grain and a microprism in the centre, as in good old MF film days. Then you can use the View Finder for critical focusing.