Need help on night photoshoot

sam1221

New member
So I have been doing photography for a while, but I never really explored detailed functions (bracketing, metering, etc) until very recently even though I shoot in manual most of the time. I use to own a D5100, but it broke. After saving up a little I recently bought a used D90 and to start saving for college decided to do some freelance work. I wasn't expecting a client this quickly and am caught off by surprise because I thought I would be able to learn it by then. Up until now I never really used flash. I always bumped up the iso or any of the other settings to get the shot and since it was for myself I didn't care too much about noise and thigs like that because I loved it as a hobby. Basically I have to do a night portrait photo shoot and its outdoors. Not in city streets but out side as in park/rural/little wilderness. I ordered these 2 external flash from amazon. Amazon.com : Altura Photo I-TTL Auto-Focus Dedicated Flash for Nikon D5300 D5200 D5100 D3300 D3200 D3100 D7100 D7000 DSLR Cameras + MagicFiber Microfiber Lens Cleaning Cloth : Camera & Photo I do plan on learning more but since I dont have too much time I want to know what kind of setting should I keep my D90 on to get some good shots. I know that I need to keep the ISO low, but what about the arrangements of the flash and do I need to use pop up flash what? also what other settings I should be concerned about (metering (center or spot) ; bracketing, etc) other than f stop and shutter speed. Basically I need advice/tips on everything for night time wilderness portraits including white balance, sharpness and modes in the menu. Also I have tried looking this up but cant find a beginners guide, but is there any place where I can learn how to set up external flash and some quick tips on night time portraits. In additiong I also have an another client that wants to do a model type photoshoot with car lights. I dont know exactly how to describe it but its like the ones on calenders where the girl/s is/are posing at night on the hood of a car/s or near the car and the (main) light source is headlights. at least that's what it seems like. So I also need help/tips on this part. I feel like this one is a bit hard. The only article I have found is this but I am still missing more basic info in order to put this into action. Using Car Headlights For Portrait Photography Lighting | Popular Photography What lens will be the best one to use? I have 18-105 kit lens 35-70 f/3.3-4.5 70-210 f/4-5.6
 

FastGlass

Senior Member
Nigh time portraits in the wilderness, park? Why at night? Well the first thing you need to know about incorporating a flash in a scene is you need to understand that now you have 2 exposures. One for the backgrounds and one for the flash. I'm assuming you want the backgrounds to be visible. If so expose for that first. Pretend your taking an image of just the backgrounds and set up the camera for that. Once you get that dialed in. Bring in the subjects and use the flash part of the exposure for them. Meaning keep the settings for the backgrounds locked in and don't change it. Adjust the flash for the portraits. Keep in mind that even when using TTl, your still going to play around with the output on the flash. And even the backgrounds. when having 2 exposures it's almost normal to underexpose the backgrounds a little so more attention is on the subjects. Also keep the subjects away from anything behind them or there will be unsightly shadows of them from the flash. As far as flash position. I would start placing them in front but off to the side and a little above their heads. Again, you'll have to play with that as to get the shadows on them to look good. Do you have any modifiers? You'll need them to soften the shadows. It's hard to tell you exactly how to do this as every situation is different. And who knows how the flash guns you've purchased will perform.
 

Marcel

Happily retired
Staff member
Super Mod
Ah, so now you have a client, a job to do and NOW you're scared... Well, I don't know how long you have to do to learn how to use your new equipment, but I'd say hurry up and practice. Get someone to pose for you BEFORE you get to the actual job. There is no magic with photography, it's all a question of measuring the light output from the light source and adjusting the camera accordingly. Practice is all you need and if anyone tells you about his "secret special setting", you might as well hire him to do the job if you're just going to copy his suggestions.

Good luck or should I say, get the
equipment out and practice ASAP.
 

pedroj

Senior Member
Wow here's another that wants to run before he can walk....Your manuals [lights & camera] and you tube might help...


If you don't think you can do it, be honest and tell the folks
 

sam1221

New member
Alright so my next question is what metering mode should I use, what flash type should I use (slow sync, front, or rear) while keeping in mind that I cant use slow sync in Manual mode, only in program and aperture priority. What about Active D- lighting, on or off? I realize that you cant tell me the exact settings as each situation is different but with things like D-lighting and other what would be the best setting to keep it at in order for me to start experimenting before the shoot. I was looking through the menu and under the bracketing menu and what should i set the auto bracketing set to (AE & Flash, Flash, AE, WB, ADL?) and what about "Auto FP" (on or off) and modeling flash? Also what lens would be my best bet. I am thinking the 70-210 or the 18-105, but what do you think?
 
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Marcel

Happily retired
Staff member
Super Mod
Alright so my next question is what metering mode should I use, what flash type should I use (slow sync, front, or rear) while keeping in mind that I cant use slow sync in Manual mode, only in program and aperture priority. What about Active D- lighting, on or off? I realize that you cant tell me the exact settings as each situation is different but with things like D-lighting and other what would be the best setting to keep it at in order for me to start experimenting before the shoot. I was looking through the menu and under the bracketing menu and what should i set the auto bracketing set to (AE & Flash, Flash, AE, WB, ADL?) and what about "Auto FP" (on or off) and modeling flash? Also what lens would be my best bet. I am thinking the 70-210 or the 18-105, but what do you think?

I think you seem to lack the basic photographic knowledge to do such a shoot. Sorry to be so honest, but it's what I think.

I can't think of what to answer you since I don't know what you are going to photograph, nor the results you are looking for. Any picture should start with a plan. And then you can start practicing to achieve that result. It's up to you to try the different settings and then decide, not to any of us.

You are so lucky because you can do all this for free. Used to be that you would have to buy film, have it processed, see the result and then try again. Now with digital just try a sample shot, correct what wrong and then you're on your way. If you can't even do that, you should not be charging for your services.
 

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
Alright so my next question is what metering mode should I use, what flash type should I use (slow sync, front, or rear) while keeping in mind that I cant use slow sync in Manual mode, only in program and aperture priority. What about Active D- lighting, on or off? I realize that you cant tell me the exact settings as each situation is different but with things like D-lighting and other what would be the best setting to keep it at in order for me to start experimenting before the shoot. I was looking through the menu and under the bracketing menu and what should i set the auto bracketing set to (AE & Flash, Flash, AE, WB, ADL?) and what about "Auto FP" (on or off) and modeling flash? Also what lens would be my best bet. I am thinking the 70-210 or the 18-105, but what do you think?
If I were you, I would spend some time learning the basics of The Exposure Triangle and then Google some tutorials for night shooting in general. I don't think I've ever used a flash at night so I'm not sure what kind of photography you're going for. I could give you some suggestions for basic low light/night photography but what settings you want to use will be determined by what you want your final outcome to look like; we can't give you specific recipes or tips for how to do this shoot because there *are no* recipes we can give you for this, not even in the most general sense.

What it sounds like you need to do is learn what tools you have, what the tools do and what their functional limits are both individually and when working in tandem with other tools. This applies to what lens to use; when, if and how to use a flash; whether or not to employ Active D-Lighting and everything else. You apply your understanding to some shots and then see what you get. Based on those shots, you move forward, adjusting your tools to get the results you want. That's what we all do because, in a nutshell, that's how photography works.
....
 

Englischdude

Senior Member
sorry but I also will give my honest opinion on this. when someone asks you to take photos for them they expect a certain level of quality in the result. portrait photography is something extremely personal to the subject, normally the expectations are high, otherwise they would be doing selfies with their phone.

if you are not up to the job, be honest and admit that you are beginning and that the expectations should not be high. if this is accepted then you are in the clear and have a great opportunity to use this as a learning experience, however, and I cant emphasize this enough, assess the expectations of the subject first and if you are not up to it DONT DO IT!
 

sam1221

New member
So I took the advice and talked to the client and she still wants me to go through with it. I did set the expectations low. We talked more and this time she sent me some links to what she was looking for. Here are the links. I am gonna try to learn as much as I can. I received the shipment of the flash today and I am going to experiment with it. I will let you know how it goes and post some pics if the client is okay with it. Thanks for all your help. I know that you cant give me any exact details, but how do you think they (links below) were able to get those shots. Do you thinks they used reflectors because the lighting is really even on the subjects, but the metadata says that the flash was not fired or used. https://www.flickr.com/photos/ilkoa...Y8J-5VFyA9-6vx1Ak-5XMEPu-fAs5sq-iWGqVp-98HuPn https://www.flickr.com/photos/coolh...vAm-f3cVFA-aAywed-7hx4Rf-gFJBdF-gFLWjT-bhDQ7K https://www.flickr.com/photos/wills...zeQ-cmvryN-ksiB9k-7USWeF-7SivWw-9ABymY-7fPrgX https://www.flickr.com/photos/uremy...zeQ-cmvryN-ksiB9k-7USWeF-7SivWw-9ABymY-7fPrgX https://www.flickr.com/photos/hayle...zeQ-cmvryN-ksiB9k-7USWeF-7SivWw-9ABymY-7fPrgX
 

wornish

Senior Member
Not going through all of them but in the first one "Drinking in the Night".

It looks like there was a flash on the floor behind him pointing at the camera to create the outline.
Then another flash on a stand above and to the left of him probably shooting in to an umbrella to spread the light.

Alternatively, it could all have been done using Photoshop.
His picture could have been taken in a studio with a light above a little forward of him and to the left then extracted and pasted onto a second shot of the night scene on the road.

In fact the more I look the more I think its a Photoshop job.

Either way you don't get a shot like this in one go even a professional would take many shots to get this right. Setting the individual flash power being the biggest challenge.

Good luck
 

sam1221

New member
So I did my first photo shoot yesterday night. I took around 109 pics and only a few of them came out decent/good. Please let me know your thoughts on the pictures and also what do you think I should be doing differently. both framing/composing the shots, lighting placement and others. Also could someone explain to me why on the left side of the face is blurred with movement while the right side isnt, One the left side there was a lamppost and the right side was lit with flash.
Also before the shoot one of my flash was not working so I was only working with one external flash an not even the pop up flash was used. DSC_0252.jpgDSC_0253.jpgDSC_0255.jpgDSC_0309.jpgDSC_0313.jpgDSC_0317.jpgDSC_0320.jpgDSC_0335.jpgDSC_0338.jpgDSC_0347.jpgDSC_0348.jpgDSC_0349.jpgDSC_0354.jpgDSC_0357.jpgDSC_0360.jpgDSC_0389.jpg



Also do you guys thing that these pics are currently good enough to charge people for or can be with adjustments?
 

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
So I did my first photo shoot yesterday night. I took around 109 pics and only a few of them came out decent/good. Please let me know your thoughts on the pictures and also what do you think I should be doing differently. both framing/composing the shots, lighting placement and others. Also could someone explain to me why on the left side of the face is blurred with movement while the right side isnt, One the left side there was a lamppost and the right side was lit with flash.
Also before the shoot one of my flash was not working so I was only working with one external flash an not even the pop up flash was used.
Wow... Okay... Well, first of all I'm curious why your Exposure Compensation is adjusted to -0.67EV on all these shots? Second, why are you using such slow shutter speeds (i.e. 1/10) for this shoot? Third, how were you using you flash and how was your camera configured for it? The facial blur in some of your shots makes me wonder if you have/had rear-curtain synch enabled.


Also do you guys thing that these pics are currently good enough to charge people for or can be with adjustments?
To be frank, absolutely not.

...
 

FastGlass

Senior Member
If using flash to illuminate the scene, subjects. Shoot in manual and set the shutter to 1/200th. Setting the shutter any lower on the outside shots isn't going to contribute to the exposure at all so why introduce camera shake to the images. Set the aperture at it's biggest ( smallest number) so your not firing the flashes at full power and go from there. Also adjust the ISO no more than 1600. Any more and the shots start to look real grainy. Like the other posts have said. You need to learn allot more. Judging by the camera settings you don't seem to understand the fact that when using flash. You now have to deal with two exposures.
 

SteveL54

Senior Member
No.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm an amateur at this, but these are only snapshots.
Were these taken in full auto? Manual? Shutter priority?
Where was your white balance set? Flash? Sun? Incandescent?
The head movement is caused by the subject moving as you were taking the shot with a slow shutter speed.
Exposure comp is way too low. You're at -.67 Start at 0.0 and adjust from there.
Girl with the hat on in the store is good intent, but way to busy background. You need to get closer and open up that aperture.
The rest have the lighting all wrong.

Not trying to be harsh at all, but you need to practice, practice, practice. And read.

Like I said, I'm just an amateur, and I'm sure that someone will be along to correct my mistakes here as well.
Just my observations......
 

sonicbuffalo_RIP

Senior Member
So I did my first photo shoot yesterday night. I took around 109 pics and only a few of them came out decent/good. Please let me know your thoughts on the pictures and also what do you think I should be doing differently. both framing/composing the shots, lighting placement and others. Also could someone explain to me why on the left side of the face is blurred with movement while the right side isnt, One the left side there was a lamppost and the right side was lit with flash.
Also before the shoot one of my flash was not working so I was only working with one external flash an not even the pop up flash was used. View attachment 101284View attachment 101285View attachment 101286View attachment 101287View attachment 101288View attachment 101289View attachment 101290View attachment 101291View attachment 101292View attachment 101293View attachment 101294View attachment 101295View attachment 101296View attachment 101297View attachment 101298View attachment 101299



Also do you guys thing that these pics are currently good enough to charge people for or can be with adjustments?

no...you should not be charging.....not for that type of photo....but maybe for something less technical. We'll have to see what other types of photography you do to make that determination. Definitely not for these sample shots.
 

WayneF

Senior Member
Selling surely was meant to be funny. :) My guess it is a manual flash, and was camera Auto or P mode, and matrix metering, which probably is worst choice for this. All of your pictures have a bright background light at right histogram border, as if that were important. But you cannot meter such as this, and that light is not your subject, and is your least concern.

I don't know how to offer suggestions from this point, and hard to say what your best shutter speed and aperture would be for each picture, but it would of course be adjusted to give the result you want. When not right, simply fix it. Same with flash power level, adjusted to give the result you want. It is far from point&shoot - a very different philosophy, of doing what you see the results need. Manual camera mode would allow that, and monitor the flash power too. Short of that, at least start with camera A mode and Center Weighted metering.
 
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sam1221

New member
I was shooting in manual mode and I had a wireless trigger attached to my hot shoe.

I have no idea why the exposure is -.67. I remember keeping it at 0.0

The flash mode was set to manual. I will keep it at TTL next time.

The metering was kept at spot metering the whole time, but I had the metering adjusted to the background like one of the first post on this thread suggested.

I was using the 70-210 f/4-5.6 lens. The largest aperture lens I have is 35-70 f/3.3-4.5 AF. I didn't use that because most of the reviews were bad for that lens. Its on the list here Nikon's 10 Worst Lenses

some of them are blurry because the D90 wasn't auto-focusing properly in low light and I couldn't see anything through the viewfinder.

I kept the ISO to 200 to keep the noise to minimum. Next time (day or two) I will try ISO 400-800 and see how that goes.

*Note* These pics are directly from camera. I have done anything to them.
 

WayneF

Senior Member
I was shooting in manual mode and I had a wireless trigger attached to my hot shoe.

I have no idea why the exposure is -.67. I remember keeping it at 0.0

The flash mode was set to manual. I will keep it at TTL next time.

The metering was kept at spot metering the whole time, but I had the metering adjusted to the background like one of the first post on this thread suggested.

I was using the 70-210 f/4-5.6 lens. The largest aperture lens I have is 35-70 f/3.3-4.5 AF. I didn't use that because most of the reviews were bad for that lens. Its on the list here Nikon's 10 Worst Lenses

some of them are blurry because the D90 wasn't auto-focusing properly in low light and I couldn't see anything through the viewfinder.

I kept the ISO to 200 to keep the noise to minimum. Next time (day or two) I will try ISO 400-800 and see how that goes.


Your flash is off camera, which is normally a good thing, but the large majority of radio triggers are manual flash only. So (generally) the only way TTL will work off camera is to use the D90 Commander (in internal flash) to trigger it. That would work for these pictures (if the flash model can support it), and you can set the MODE of the built in flash to be "- -" mode (in the commander menu) to disable its contribution to the lighting.

Or - the flash on a hot shoe extension cord (Nikon SC-28 for example) could do TTL off camera. but the cords are not real long. Perhaps often long enough.

Manual flash is not difficult though, since you can easily see what it did (on the camera rear LCD), and then you correct its power level better and do it again. And maybe again. You can easily make it perfect. The easy trick is that once you get it set up right for the situation, then more shots in the same situation work fine too.

Picture 1,2,3 are off camera flash (of various flash exposure degree, but ambient is a little brighter). 2 is pretty good, the off camera flash is about right (very slightly bright), and its angle provided a little modeling shading on the face, which really improves it over what on camera direct flash could have done. You were trying to also expose the background with the ambient lighting, which 2 achieved well, but everything else is all so variable.

4 and 5 mostly just need a little more flash exposure. And all the last half of them too. Work on more consistency. These are difficult situations you are trying, you cannot expect to get them right on first try. But you can see the immediate result on the camera rear LCD, and when too dark, you can increase exposure (flash power) and try again. Seeing and paying attention to what you are doing works wonders. :) You were trying various different and difficult things in the night time shots, but the final one begs for a little more flash exposure. You can boost this one in post processing. Lowering Adobe Levels White Point (to about 2/3 scale) is the easy way on this one.

Ken Rockwell is another discussion. He usually gets facts right, but his opinions are so bizarre. :) If trying to expose the dark ambient, a wider lens could help, but the lens, like the 35-70, would NOT be your biggest problem. Nikon flashes generally have a focus assist light that really helps focus in dark places if on the hot shoe, but off camera, would need the SC-28 cord to enable the light, and then it would need serious attention to get it aimed at the focus point.

These are difficult situations that you are trying, and there are alternatives, but the best trick is to watch what you are doing (your results), and don't hesitate to make changes and try it again. You can always vastly improve it. It is only a matter of caring and trying.
 
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