2MuchTurbo
Senior Member
Bit of a noob question...but am I better off shooting in full color and converting to b&w in pp, or shoot directly in b&w on my D7100?
Best way to Shoot B&W
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Ijustwant1
Senior Member
What I do is shoot in RAW, open in Lightroom, make appropriate adjustments in colour, then edit with Niks Silver FX , that works for me ! 
Horoscope Fish
Senior Member
You're better off shooting in RAW, in "color" and converting it to B&W using something like Photoshop.
Reason being this is the best way to preserve subtle graduations/tones.
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Reason being this is the best way to preserve subtle graduations/tones.
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Don Kuykendall_RIP
RIP :(
Agree with the others. shoot in Color (RAW) also this leaves you the option of leaving it is color if you change your mind about the B&W
2MuchTurbo
Senior Member
...ok (insert criticism here) I don't normally shoot in RAW, mostly fine, large jpeg. Will that make much of a difference?
Don Kuykendall_RIP
RIP :(
Yes, take it from someone who only shot in JPEG for a long time. Once you learn how to process a RAW file properly it makes a world of difference.
I don't know if this helps you any, but you can have both.
If you set your camera picture control to monochrome, it only affects the jpg file. If you shoot only jpg, then you are of course stuck with it. But if you shoot raw+jpg, you get the b&w jpg and the raw will contain all the color info. This might be useful to see if you can do better than the camera.
Another option to compare the camera b&w to your own work... if you set monochrome and shoot only raw, you will get a b&w preview on the camera as before, but the raw still contains everything. If you happen to use ViewNX, it will initially display that raw file as a b&w, but you can easily switch it back to color and do your own thing.
Anyway, I hope I didn't confuse, just giving options to compare the camera b&w processing to your own.
If you set your camera picture control to monochrome, it only affects the jpg file. If you shoot only jpg, then you are of course stuck with it. But if you shoot raw+jpg, you get the b&w jpg and the raw will contain all the color info. This might be useful to see if you can do better than the camera.
Another option to compare the camera b&w to your own work... if you set monochrome and shoot only raw, you will get a b&w preview on the camera as before, but the raw still contains everything. If you happen to use ViewNX, it will initially display that raw file as a b&w, but you can easily switch it back to color and do your own thing.
Anyway, I hope I didn't confuse, just giving options to compare the camera b&w processing to your own.
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Horoscope Fish
Senior Member
Yes. The RAW format preserves a huuuge amount of information about your photo that gets tossed out when using a compressed format like JPG.
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Yes- it makes a huge difference, especially when converting color images to monochrome. When simulating a filter, you are throwing away much of the data collected in pixels being "filtered out". Having the raw data available gives much more information for the software to make use of when doing the conversion. JPEG images have sharpening applied, and reduce the intensity values of each pixel to 0:255. Raw values are 0:16383, gives much more to work with before the image looks "posterized". When experimenting with Silver Efex- I found images that had sharpening applied look horrible when converted using a simulated Red filter. Edges looked jagged. Turning sharpening off fixed that issue. Raw images allowed much more experimentation, "Almost" anything your camera can do in-camera, Lightroom can do in Post.
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BackdoorArts
Senior Member
Do you want to learn to shoot B&W, or do you want to make great B&W photos?
If it's the latter, concentrate on shooting great photos and then either get something like Nik Silver Efex Pro 2 (best conversion s/w I've found) or learn how to manipulate the colors in a desaturated image using Photoshop or Lightroom (I did a tutorial here).
If you want to concentrate on B&W as an art form then learning to think in B&W is critical, because vastly different looking colors will look very different in B&W - two colors of varying hues will look identical, lighter and darker looking colors will swap which one is light which is dark. And all of that can be manipulated via color filters. DSLR's have a built in, basic filtering available in monochrome mode, so that will help you learn. I like the suggestion of shooting RAW + B&W because it will allow you to see the color image and the B&W, but unfortunately only after you export the RAW file (in camera it will display in the Camera Mode you shot it in). The alternative is to set one or both of your User settings to Monochrome, perhaps one with a filter, and alternate a photo between color and the B&W setting(s) to see how it impacts the photo. Shoot, shoot, shoot until you can start to predict how certain things will look. Shoot bushes of varying shades of green and learn under what conditions they blend together and when dull, single color becomes wildly varying shades of grey.
It's a lot easier to make great B&W images from a color image than it is to think in B&W, and if that's the way you go I strongly suggest shooting RAW. But it's well worth the effort if it's a style you want to concentrate on. I haven't gotten there yet, but I suspect at some point I will want to try it out - maybe shoot nothing but B&W in camera for a month? Even then, shooting RAW will give you more control of your light on the back end, and Adobe Camera RAW will apply your camera's Monochrome profile settings for you, so you'll see your B&W shots as well, and maybe want to convert them to color.
If it's the latter, concentrate on shooting great photos and then either get something like Nik Silver Efex Pro 2 (best conversion s/w I've found) or learn how to manipulate the colors in a desaturated image using Photoshop or Lightroom (I did a tutorial here).
If you want to concentrate on B&W as an art form then learning to think in B&W is critical, because vastly different looking colors will look very different in B&W - two colors of varying hues will look identical, lighter and darker looking colors will swap which one is light which is dark. And all of that can be manipulated via color filters. DSLR's have a built in, basic filtering available in monochrome mode, so that will help you learn. I like the suggestion of shooting RAW + B&W because it will allow you to see the color image and the B&W, but unfortunately only after you export the RAW file (in camera it will display in the Camera Mode you shot it in). The alternative is to set one or both of your User settings to Monochrome, perhaps one with a filter, and alternate a photo between color and the B&W setting(s) to see how it impacts the photo. Shoot, shoot, shoot until you can start to predict how certain things will look. Shoot bushes of varying shades of green and learn under what conditions they blend together and when dull, single color becomes wildly varying shades of grey.
It's a lot easier to make great B&W images from a color image than it is to think in B&W, and if that's the way you go I strongly suggest shooting RAW. But it's well worth the effort if it's a style you want to concentrate on. I haven't gotten there yet, but I suspect at some point I will want to try it out - maybe shoot nothing but B&W in camera for a month? Even then, shooting RAW will give you more control of your light on the back end, and Adobe Camera RAW will apply your camera's Monochrome profile settings for you, so you'll see your B&W shots as well, and maybe want to convert them to color.
2MuchTurbo
Senior Member
Do you want to learn to shoot B&W, or do you want to make great B&W photos?
If it's the latter, concentrate on shooting great photos and then either get something like Nik Silver Efex Pro 2 (best conversion s/w I've found) or learn how to manipulate the colors in a desaturated image using Photoshop or Lightroom (I did a tutorial here).
If you want to concentrate on B&W as an art form then learning to think in B&W is critical, because vastly different looking colors will look very different in B&W - two colors of varying hues will look identical, lighter and darker looking colors will swap which one is light which is dark. And all of that can be manipulated via color filters. DSLR's have a built in, basic filtering available in monochrome mode, so that will help you learn. I like the suggestion of shooting RAW + B&W because it will allow you to see the color image and the B&W, but unfortunately only after you export the RAW file (in camera it will display in the Camera Mode you shot it in). The alternative is to set one or both of your User settings to Monochrome, perhaps one with a filter, and alternate a photo between color and the B&W setting(s) to see how it impacts the photo. Shoot, shoot, shoot until you can start to predict how certain things will look. Shoot bushes of varying shades of green and learn under what conditions they blend together and when dull, single color becomes wildly varying shades of grey.
It's a lot easier to make great B&W images from a color image than it is to think in B&W, and if that's the way you go I strongly suggest shooting RAW. But it's well worth the effort if it's a style you want to concentrate on. I haven't gotten there yet, but I suspect at some point I will want to try it out - maybe shoot nothing but B&W in camera for a month? Even then, shooting RAW will give you more control of your light on the back end, and Adobe Camera RAW will apply your camera's Monochrome profile settings for you, so you'll see your B&W shots as well, and maybe want to convert them to color.
Ideally I'd like to learn how to shoot better photos first, and let the b&w come together in post-production.
I understand the techincalities behind shooting in RAW, however, for the moment I am shooting a lot of sporting events (friends hockey games, basketball, etc) and plan to take my camera to the race-track in the summer. The D7100 has a small buffer when shooting at high-speed in RAW and I'm afraid if I shoot in RAW I may miss out because of the buffer. Then again, I know I need to ditch the "spray-and-pray" attitude and focus on getting the picture I actually want.
Will definitely try to take some specific photos in RAW color and manipulate to b&w in pp.
Thanks a lot!
Unfortunately, you cannot shoot in "B&W" as your sensor can only record various intensities of only 3 colors. When you do shoot in "B&W" your camera will create a JPEG and desaturate it and send it to your LED display so you can see what it would look like in B&W. However, the RAW file you recorded will be in full color. This is a great way to begin your understanding of B&W imagery.
BackdoorArts
Senior Member
If you are forced to shoot jpegs, as you seem to be due to the buffer issue, you can still learn a lot about B&W conversion. While you're limited in what levels of light manipulation you can do without the RAW file, the application and effect of colored filters on the image should be nearly identical. In other words, hue and saturation adjustments should be relatively consistent on the jpeg and the RAW file, it's when you start dealing with exposure, contrast and other basic light settings that you stand to lose IQ. So learn what you can from each conversion, regardless of what you shoot.
Thats a good point, the buffer, but you said it and I will add my thoughts. I noticed as soon as I got away from the spray and pray technique my photos improved significantly. I would practice control during team practice sessions and before I knew it I no longer had 400-500 pictures of one game and it was down to around 100-200. My goal this next season is to cut that in half.
Something that took me a bit to realize, the more photos you take the longer it takes in post processing. I have seen videos of the buffer issue with the 7100 and it never crossed my mind as an issue unless I was going to do the spray-n-pray approach. I ended up with the D600, but only because I wanted to go FX. Set it up for RAW and just hold down the shutter button, I bet you will be surprised at how many shots you could get before it chokes down.
You could try and put the camera in continuos low and then make the jump to RAW. Also another thing that helped get away from spray-n-pray was setting my camera up to use the back focus option, it forced me to think about and focus before shooting instead of holding down the main release button and letting the camera go.
Something that took me a bit to realize, the more photos you take the longer it takes in post processing. I have seen videos of the buffer issue with the 7100 and it never crossed my mind as an issue unless I was going to do the spray-n-pray approach. I ended up with the D600, but only because I wanted to go FX. Set it up for RAW and just hold down the shutter button, I bet you will be surprised at how many shots you could get before it chokes down.
You could try and put the camera in continuos low and then make the jump to RAW. Also another thing that helped get away from spray-n-pray was setting my camera up to use the back focus option, it forced me to think about and focus before shooting instead of holding down the main release button and letting the camera go.
I would advise on "taking the better photo" first before worrying about monochrome conversions. If it's mostly friends sporting events and such, shoot color and stick with trying to be more selective for shots rather than filling buffers and hoping for the best. Once you get that down, shooting raw will not slow you down, you will slow yourself down by being more engaged in the events through the viewfinder. It shouldn't be a contest to who shoots the most shots.