Nikon Playin Mind Games with Sigma....Beware
- Thread starter Millie
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BackdoorArts
Senior Member
That seems awful strange that image review would be impacted by the lens on the camera, but who knows.
If there's playing going on it's not just Nikon. My brother is a pro shooter and has the new Sigma 120-300mm. He loves it, and it shoots with Canon 1DX and 5D Mk III cameras for work. With the 5D the lens works perfectly, but with the 1DX the focus goes off between 200-300mm. He had the exact same problem with the previous generation lens. He spent a ton of time with reps from both Canon and Sigma at the Photoplus Expo last month and was invited by the Sigma rep to bring his lens and all his cameras to their Long Island facility for examination. Long story short, it seems that the 1D's have a different focusing system than all other Canon bodies (source info from a Canon rep), and that 3rd party lens manufacturers may not exhaustively test all lenses (his other Sigmas all work great on the 1D). Sigma was able to fine tune the lens somewhat but it still wasn't perfect, so they sent off numbers to their team in Japan. He just heard from Sigma on Monday and they are custom calibrating a new 120-300mm for him and he should have it shortly. Now that is customer service.
So, are these issues intentional with Nikon and Canon? Who knows?! I honestly can't see engineers putting bugs in firmware that "breaks" the camera when other brand lenses are attached, but I also can't see them also testing to make sure changes in operating software work with lenses other than their own.
If there's playing going on it's not just Nikon. My brother is a pro shooter and has the new Sigma 120-300mm. He loves it, and it shoots with Canon 1DX and 5D Mk III cameras for work. With the 5D the lens works perfectly, but with the 1DX the focus goes off between 200-300mm. He had the exact same problem with the previous generation lens. He spent a ton of time with reps from both Canon and Sigma at the Photoplus Expo last month and was invited by the Sigma rep to bring his lens and all his cameras to their Long Island facility for examination. Long story short, it seems that the 1D's have a different focusing system than all other Canon bodies (source info from a Canon rep), and that 3rd party lens manufacturers may not exhaustively test all lenses (his other Sigmas all work great on the 1D). Sigma was able to fine tune the lens somewhat but it still wasn't perfect, so they sent off numbers to their team in Japan. He just heard from Sigma on Monday and they are custom calibrating a new 120-300mm for him and he should have it shortly. Now that is customer service.
So, are these issues intentional with Nikon and Canon? Who knows?! I honestly can't see engineers putting bugs in firmware that "breaks" the camera when other brand lenses are attached, but I also can't see them also testing to make sure changes in operating software work with lenses other than their own.
Those of us who worked all of our lives in IT (my first email account was in 1978!) preserve our sanity with this mantra whenever we encounter incompatibility between systems, software or hardware: "Do not attribute to conspiracy or intent what can easily be dismissed as incompetence or oversight!"
I retired last July with my sanity intact!
I retired last July with my sanity intact!
Horoscope Fish
Senior Member
Quoted for great truth.
I remember an older programmer remembering the IBM RAMAC as "If the Computer works, and the Jukebox works, wire the Jukebox to the computer." Gotta go now, debugging a device driver... at least now it does not cause the computer to turn off with every error...
I think Nikon is on a very subtle road here...sigma forced to recall and re programme lenses must cause some to think its not a good idea to buy sigma..well I sold all my problem sigmas and bought two Nikon lenses so its working ..( did get them direct from HK at 42% of recomended retail)
Lens Problems....Latest sigma HSM lenses giveing problems( review wont go below 60 sec) 18-200 and 18-250 for certain 10-20mm and 17-35 D no problem.
Flash Problems.....Camera ignores the flash + or - setting on the camera ..works if you set it on the flash,,, YN and Meike tested
Vertical Grip Problems....Third party grip only likes Nikon Batteries ..use 3 rd party and both batteries run down as camera is used ..weird
Of course many may not notice a problem at all because 99% only play with the camera (The "I always use Auto" mentality ) and dont use it in anger ie when the bloody thing has got to work....
Lens Problems....Latest sigma HSM lenses giveing problems( review wont go below 60 sec) 18-200 and 18-250 for certain 10-20mm and 17-35 D no problem.
Flash Problems.....Camera ignores the flash + or - setting on the camera ..works if you set it on the flash,,, YN and Meike tested
Vertical Grip Problems....Third party grip only likes Nikon Batteries ..use 3 rd party and both batteries run down as camera is used ..weird
Of course many may not notice a problem at all because 99% only play with the camera (The "I always use Auto" mentality ) and dont use it in anger ie when the bloody thing has got to work....
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Surely its the manufacturer of the third party add-ons who should pre test their products before claiming compatibility.
You shouldn't expect Nikon, Canon or any other camera manufacturer to test their products with every third party product thats out there trying to steal their business.
Testing their own products is a big cost and certainly contributes to the higher price you pay for own brand lenses,flash etc.
You shouldn't expect Nikon, Canon or any other camera manufacturer to test their products with every third party product thats out there trying to steal their business.
Testing their own products is a big cost and certainly contributes to the higher price you pay for own brand lenses,flash etc.
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No different than the software world. It isn't up to Microsoft (or Apple) to make sure that all of the existing third party apps work with their newest OS, that is up to the 3rd party software companies. I am guessing that Sigma is using the electronic interface between the lens and the camera in some "non-standard" way. Since Nikon lenses don't seem to have a problem it looks to be a case of Sigma not building them "right" in the first place.
BackdoorArts
Senior Member
I think you're all overthinking everything. New products get tested, old products get adjusted, it's the way things happen. It's part of being a provider of a 3rd party product. What Sigma has done with their Art and Sports Series lenses, allowing levels of calibration at the levels they do, as well as offering lifetime mount swapping (Nikon to Canon and back) on the lenses, goes to great lengths to show just how serious a player Sigma is in this business. Their lenses are great, and they aren't about to go anywhere any time soon. If nothing else that may just kick Nikon in the butt in terms of what they decide to offer their customers. They're far better served doing that than wondering what they can do to screw with Sigma engineers.
Try this one Backdoor or anyone else ..D7100 with newer vertical grip. Two Nikon batteries set to discharge the grip battery first. Battery info shows grip battery fully charged but has shot count. Camera battery is discharged.
I still say its Nikon manipulating the camera computer to give problems with third party stuff (lens flash grip) to get the word out ..use Nikon or have problems ...
I still say its Nikon manipulating the camera computer to give problems with third party stuff (lens flash grip) to get the word out ..use Nikon or have problems ...
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Nothing new,my D5100 grip only works if i put the Nikon battery in one particular slot and the after market in the other,i cut my teeth with the warnings from Nikon in the 35mm days that using any other cable release could damage your Nikon FE 
,even if it where the case it wouldn't concern me the independent manufactures will find a way around it.
,even if it where the case it wouldn't concern me the independent manufactures will find a way around it.Having re read this thread it would seem you feel justifiably upset at none compatible third party accessories,i also get the impression you where hoping for more people to jump on the band wagon i have a slightly different view in the sense if i owned a camera manufacturers and could program my cameras to only work with my products and then feel i could still grow my company then i would do it.
Your post is a good information post and if i replace any of my cameras i would now make sure they would work with the lenses i wanted but that's all i can see it achieving in the long run,if nikon are doing this as a strategy and sales of body's don't decline but sales of lenses increase then they will continue,if not things would change back.
Your post is a good information post and if i replace any of my cameras i would now make sure they would work with the lenses i wanted but that's all i can see it achieving in the long run,if nikon are doing this as a strategy and sales of body's don't decline but sales of lenses increase then they will continue,if not things would change back.
BackdoorArts
Senior Member
I have a D800 with a Vello grip and Nikon batteries. No issue whatsoever with how the batteries discharge. In my experience there are two types of "3rd Party" manufacturers, those that produce at a price point and those that produce at a quality level. I've been consistently happy with the Vello products I've purchased as I have with Sigma. Certain products, like batteries, have sufficiently documented issues when used with other aftermarket products that I would never consider buying 3rd party (though I have a pair that were throw-ins from other purchases). I've read of many other manufacturers of batteries, grips and other things that people buy because of price and they are routinely plagued by issues. That doesn't surprise me in the least.
Is Nikon "manipulating" software to purposefully screw with 3rd party gear? I don't know, but if I had to guess I would say that there is no intentional manipulation going on, but neither is there any thought into how changes in a new camera might impact 3rd party product developers - it's just a matter of making the new camera work. Why do I think this? Because Nikon isn't smart enough to build consistency within its own menu systems. Go from one camera to another and look through the various menus and you'll find nothing is in the same order, even with cameras as similar as the D7000 and the D600. Heck, they even switch the order of function buttons on the back of cameras making it mind-numbingly difficult to shoot with two different models at the same time without screwing up something, or at a minimum zooming out when your wanted to zoom in. They don't screw with 3rd parties, they screw with their own customers.
You can be as conspiratorial as you'd like - that's what the internet is for, right? Evidence suggests otherwise. With all new technology the existing technology needs to adapt or die. That's all this is.
Is Nikon "manipulating" software to purposefully screw with 3rd party gear? I don't know, but if I had to guess I would say that there is no intentional manipulation going on, but neither is there any thought into how changes in a new camera might impact 3rd party product developers - it's just a matter of making the new camera work. Why do I think this? Because Nikon isn't smart enough to build consistency within its own menu systems. Go from one camera to another and look through the various menus and you'll find nothing is in the same order, even with cameras as similar as the D7000 and the D600. Heck, they even switch the order of function buttons on the back of cameras making it mind-numbingly difficult to shoot with two different models at the same time without screwing up something, or at a minimum zooming out when your wanted to zoom in. They don't screw with 3rd parties, they screw with their own customers.
You can be as conspiratorial as you'd like - that's what the internet is for, right? Evidence suggests otherwise. With all new technology the existing technology needs to adapt or die. That's all this is.