Blown out faces. I Reduce the flash but then get a dim image. Any advice?

paul_b

Senior Member
- I take mainly photos of my child on my D3100
- Most are just family pics indoors
- I obviously need the flash on when indoors
- I don't use a tripod as she's on the constant move, lol
- I don't like standing too far back & 'zooming in' because camera shake tends to become an issue (as its magnified). Therefore i prefer to get close. However my child's face is always 'blown out' by too much flash. So i'm experimenting with turning down the flash. However when i do this i tend to get dim images (i.e only filling half the histogram)
- Any advice on how to get the correct exposure when the flash is turned down?
- ps. i tend to use a semi automatic mode, ie either aperture or 'P' mode

Thanks
 

WhiteLight

Senior Member
Am guessing you using the on camera flash?
The camera flash as you can see if very small in size, which means that the light it gives out is harsh
It is for such situations that an external flash is used..
Point the head of the flash upwards (or sideways) to bounce the flash against a wall or roof so you can get photos with good exposure without having them blow out.
There are a number of external flash units from Nikon & other manufacturers (like Yongnuo) that are decent & cover almost all budget levels
 

WhiteLight

Senior Member
To add to the above, apart from using an external flash, you can do a lot with the settings too.
Either jack up the ISO, use a large aperture.. try to keep your shutter speed around not less than 1/100 sec (Or something you know your hands won't introduce shake)
 

nickt

Senior Member
I don't know what metering mode you are in, but try them all for different results. You have Matrix, Center Weighted, and Spot. Matrix is usually best. The other two will give more specific attention to your child's exposure. Spot metering can help on a face or it can cause problems if you forget that it is selected and the spot falls on an area that is not intended.
 

BackdoorArts

Senior Member
The on board flash is a tricky little beast and takes some getting used to. Make sure you read through the manual thoroughly and understand how to use it.

I know nothing about the D3100 but did a quick scan of the menus and am thinking since you're more an Auto/P shooter you might want to try using the Child shooting mode (described as: "Boosts sharpness and saturation for clothing and background details, but renders skin tones soft and natural-looking. The built-in flash will pop up and fire if the lighting is too dim, and the AF assist lamp will illuminate if needed."). Unfortunately that camera doesn't have a lot of flexibility in terms of manipulating that flash.

If you anticipate shooting indoors a lot then perhaps investing in a decent flash unit that allows you to diffuse and bounce instead of shooting directly at the subject would be the ticket? A have a couple 3rd party units (Bower and Yongnuo) that I'm very happy with, and combined they were 1/2 the price of a Speedlight.
 

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
If you anticipate shooting indoors a lot then perhaps investing in a decent flash unit that allows you to diffuse and bounce instead of shooting directly at the subject would be the ticket? A have a couple 3rd party units (Bower and Yongnuo) that I'm very happy with, and combined they were 1/2 the price of a Speedlight.
And that, I think as well, is the answer: Bouncing or diffusing the flash. For $20 they even have a clip-on diffuser for the built-in pop-up flash. These may look silly, but they really do work!

Gary Fong Pop-up Diffuser

.....
 

WayneF

Senior Member
- I don't like standing too far back & 'zooming in' because camera shake tends to become an issue (as its magnified). Therefore i prefer to get close. However my child's face is always 'blown out' by too much flash. So i'm experimenting with turning down the flash. However when i do this i tend to get dim images (i.e only filling half the histogram)
- Any advice on how to get the correct exposure when the flash is turned down?

I assume you are using TTL flash mode, and are turning it down using Flash Compensation? (as opposed to Manual flash and turning it down with power level?)

I also assume this is direct flash from the camera internal flash. A hot shoe flash allowing bounce flash would be greatly better lighting, but direct flash does not have to be so bad. Children's pictures are a natural for bounce flash. See Four Flash Photography Basics we must know - Bounce flash, Bounce cards

How close is your "close"? I feel that is aggravating your problems, for two reasons. Proper perspective of faces (emphasized size of nose, etc) really always needs the camera to stand back, at least five feet, and six to eight feet is better perspective (always true, in any situation). Also, the light falloff with distance would not be so extreme from a little more distance (meaning maybe six feet).

Be that as it may, you can still make the flash behave, by using Flash Compensation to turn down automatic TTL flash as necessary. The proper place between too much and not enough flash is just a matter of degree. You describe being at the extremes, instead of the correct midrange level. You can adjust the Flash Compensation in 1/3 stops, which gives you a lot of control, normally a just detectable change. When you get it adjusted right for a situation, all the other pictures in the similar situation ought to be good too, and same situation should be the same tomorrow too. It's not that difficult, except maybe the very first time.

Consider that first time as test practice, and take time to try several compensation levels, to range from too much to not enough, to be sure you see all the available choices. One is just right. If too much flash, use more -EV flash compensation. If too little, use less -EV FC.

We still have to watch and adjust flash compensation for bounce flash, same thing, but the bounce lighting is so tremendously better.
 
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Rexer John

Senior Member
What aperture is your typical shot taken at?
Each stop of light lost through the lens, needs double the flash power to compensate.


Stronger ambient lighting and a large aperture will require less flash power (maybe even no flash with large aperture and a raised ISO) it will also give good bokeh to reduce background distractions in your photos.

Are you using the kit lens? This will struggle with kids running around indoors.
A faster prime lens, e.g. 1.8 aperture will give much better results indoors where you also need a quick shutter.
 

Mike D90

Senior Member
And that, I think as well, is the answer: Bouncing or diffusing the flash. For $20 they even have a clip-on diffuser for the built-in pop-up flash. These may look silly, but they really do work!

Gary Fong Pop-up Diffuser

.....

That is your issue right there. As stated you need to bounce and diffuse your flash whether it means buying a flash unit, that mounts to the shoe and can be diffused and bounced, or using the on-board flash with a diffuser/bounce.

Built in flash is kind of weak and is only good out to a few feet. Probably not even enough to effectively bounce off a high ceiling, maybe in a small room it would do.

Get a good iTTL capable Nikon dedicated flash such as a SB-700 or SB-600 and a Stophen Omnibounce diffuser.
 

Marcel

Happily retired
Staff member
Super Mod
Try the automatic "Auto" mode. Then, after a few shots, go and look at the settings the camera chose. Then switch to Manual mode with the previous settings and you might get better luck.
 

paul_b

Senior Member
What aperture is your typical shot taken at?
Each stop of light lost through the lens, needs double the flash power to compensate.


Stronger ambient lighting and a large aperture will require less flash power (maybe even no flash with large aperture and a raised ISO) it will also give good bokeh to reduce background distractions in your photos.

Are you using the kit lens? This will struggle with kids running around indoors.
A faster prime lens, e.g. 1.8 aperture will give much better results indoors where you also need a quick shutter.
Yes, I'm using the kits lens. I mostly dial the aperture right down to gain the quickest shutter speed & i think it goes down to about 5. I did try increasing the iso too but the flash blowout became much worse. Not sure what i was doing wrong.

Does the camera not automatically reduce the amount of flash depending on the aperture value?
 

Mike D90

Senior Member
Yes, I'm using the kits lens. I mostly dial the aperture right down to gain the quickest shutter speed & i think it goes down to about 5. I did try increasing the iso too but the flash blowout became much worse. Not sure what i was doing wrong.

Does the camera not automatically reduce the amount of flash depending on the aperture value?

It should use its built in TTL mode as long as you have the camera set to use TTL flash. Still, direct flash is not pretty usually.

Try this, it worked well for me once . . . .

Cut a small strip of toilet tissue just long enough and tall enough to entirely cover the flash head by wrapping it around. Use some masking or painters tape to secure the ends at the back side of the flash so it does not interfere with the flash output lens.

See if this diffuses the flash and gets rid of your blown out faces. If so, you have a diffusion necessity. If not, it is something else such as your settings or distance to subject.
 

WayneF

Senior Member
- ps. i tend to use a semi automatic mode, ie either aperture or 'P' mode

I mostly dial the aperture right down to gain the quickest shutter speed & i think it goes down to about 5. I did try increasing the iso too but the flash blowout became much worse. Not sure what i was doing wrong.

Does the camera not automatically reduce the amount of flash depending on the aperture value?

Yes, the TTL flash system meters the preflash, and sets the flash power to be appropriate for the aperture and ISO it discovers is in effect at the time. Assuming it has the power capability to be able to do it (the internal flash is pretty tiny).

It's good to understand how the flash system works. We can do so much more when we grasp the system.

The camera meter (the one we can see working) meters the ambient. Not the flash, but the ambient. Which may be outside in bright sun, or it may be indoors at night. Bright sun will meter around Sunny 16, but the room indoors might meter 2 seconds or 1/2 second, or even 1/20 second, but dim, nothing like bright sun.

You can see this if if you turn off the flash (shut the internal door), and you see what the room meters. It will be dim (typically), which is why we need the flash.

After seeing what the dim room meters, (what the proper exposure of that room ambient is), simply reach up and turn on the flash (open the flash door).
In camera A or P mode, you see the shutter speed jump to 1/60 second (there can be exceptions, Slow sync, Rear Curtain sync, and of course camera S or M modes). But the default for camera A or P mode is 1/60 second, called the Minimum Shutter Speed With Flash. You are using flash, and you don't need it to be 2 seconds or 1/2 second, so it assumes 1/60. Nothing meters 1/60, it just thinks that is slow enough, since it doesn't matter anyway. It is too dim, and we are using flash.

The shutter speed does not affect the flash. The flash is faster (shorter duration) than the shutter speed. The shutter just has to be open when the flash triggers. However, the shutter itself is limited to 1/200 second with flash (Maximum Shutter Sync Speed).

So, the meter metered the ambient and set some aperture for the ambient (which is insignificantly weak indoors, but that is how it works).

In Camera P mode in this dim room (compared to bright sunshine, it is weak), the aperture is very likely wide open (because the ambient is dim, which is why we are using flash).
There are more ifs and buts, and the higher you set ISO, the farther from maximum aperture in camera P mode - which is not about exposure (ambient is still grossly underexposed), but is about the minimum EV value the system can meter. It just does.

So camera P mode is not a good choice for flash indoors (unless you want the lens wide open). However, camera P mode is a great choice for fill flash in bright sun. The difference is we actually have some ambient then.

Camera A mode is better - it lets us set the aperture to any value we want, so we can give consideration to the flash (because the system does not). Wide aperture for more effective flash power, or stopped down some for depth of field. Our choice. The TTL flash will respond to it.

The shutter speed in camera A mode will still be 1/60 second - that Minimum Shutter Speed With Flash. The flash (called speedlight) is faster than the shutter speed, and it is the flash speed that stops motion and prevents camera shake (not the shutter speed). The flash stops the motion, including camera shake.

But the 1/60 second is not doing anything for us either. Flash does not even care about shutter speed.

So... we can use camera M mode (manual) with flash indoors. We can still set the same aperture we might choose for camera A mode, and the flash works exactly the same as in camera A mode. But camera M mode also lets us set shutter speed to any value we want. The flash isn't affected, but maybe to 1/200 second to keep out more of the orange incandescent light. Which is a required given for studio work. Shutter speed will not affect the flash, but it affects continuous ambient.

It is "manual" mode, but all that is manual is the ambient exposure, which is pretty much "don't care" indoors (typically).

The TTL flash is still automatic flash in any camera mode. Repeat: the TTL flash is still automatic flash in any camera mode. The camera has a separate metering system for the TTL preflash, which sets flash power to be appropriate for whatever aperture/ISO it discovers is in effect.

And there is not much we can do for the dim ambient indoors anyway. We can imagine brighter exceptions, but typically ambient simply does not matter indoors (typically too dim to matter). We are using flash instead. However, the automation tries to set up exposure for the ambient, not for the flash.

So, since we know this, we can do things a little better for flash. At least control the aperture, to be what you want to do.

My own notion is the various diffusers are pointless on the tiny internal flash. That is not the answer. The answer is learning how to get proper flash exposure. It is easy, and rewarding (even direct flash does not have to be crummy), so I would instead suggest concentrating on getting the flash exposure right instead, it makes such an overwhelming difference.

Direct flash does tend to overexpose, because the distant background is very dark (inverse square law falloff). The TTL metering sees that dark background, and tries to brighten it (computers are stupid), which can overexpose direct flash. Even for a near background, direct flash can make dark shadows on it too.

So sometimes we do have to compensate direct flash, with -EV flash compensation, to hold it back a little. We do what we see we need to do. If it is not perfect, simply fix it.

Whereas bounce more evenly lights the room, and when it is off a little, it is probably underexposure then, compensated with +EV flash compensation.
Bounce is such a great thing, and accumulating pictures of kids for the future seems a worthy investment, money for the flash, and a bit of learning about flash. If you're gonna do it, do it right. :)

All this probably seems mysterious and difficult at first, but it merely takes a little experience to keep up with it. Like driving... we don't think about staying in the lane or holding speed steady or looking in the mirror before changing lanes. It was harder first day, but now we simply just do it, without thinking about it. Good skills to learn.
 
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paul_b

Senior Member
Thanks Wayne for the great reply (& everybody). I'm slowly experimenting with all the advice.

1st experiment (completed): Turn down the built in flash (by 0.7) and increase the iso (auto iso sensitivity to 'on' via the camera's menu). Result = acceptable light on the face that's not blown out. However terrible noise has been introduced. All things considered I'd rather have an image with noise as a problem than one with blown out faces that i just throw away.

2nd experiment (completed): Using a Nikon external bounce flash (pointing straight up). Result = Nice exposure everywhere (& low noise). However, the colours in the images often look weird (even after clicking on a grey point). I suppose this must be where the light is bouncing off coloured things i.e wallpaper etc.

So both the above methods have their pro's and con's.

To experiment with (to do):

- Buy a diffuser and try that
- Eventually buy a faster prime lens with a wider aperture
- Shoot in child mode
- Work through Wayne's advice and try it all out (maybe on a mannequin, lol)
 

paul_b

Senior Member
After doing some research on the net, am i right in thinking that the faster/wider aperture prime lenses are non VR?

Is this because they are faster and dont need the VR?

What kind of speed increase would we be talking about?
 

WayneF

Senior Member
1st experiment (completed): Turn down the built in flash (by 0.7) and increase the iso (auto iso sensitivity to 'on' via the camera's menu). Result = acceptable light on the face that's not blown out. However terrible noise has been introduced. All things considered I'd rather have an image with noise as a problem than one with blown out faces that i just throw away.

Which camera body? Models vary in how they do Auto ISO with flash.

Older models (D300 and older) did not increase ISO when flash is being used (stayed at lowest minimum, which seems perfect to me). Then D300S and later started fully increasing ISO for the dim ambient exposure, even with flash, which the flash had to use. That's bad news, turn Auto ISO off with flash (and of course, it absolutely has to be off with manual flash). Then about the last three newest models (I'm aware of D800, D600, D7100) fixed that better, and will not increase ISO more than two stops if flash is to be used, like 100 to 400. That's much better, finally.

You can determine this easily, what it does. With flash turned off (door closed), see what the ambient exposure and ISO is. Then reach up and turn on the flash, and check again. ISO is not reduced on these intermediate date models.

You're the one in control. :) Just turn Auto ISO off with flash. You are using flash instead. However, the little internal flash, and also bounce, can benefit by as much as ISO 400. Just set the ISO you need, instead of letting automation max it out.

2nd experiment (completed): Using a Nikon external bounce flash (pointing straight up). Result = Nice exposure everywhere (& low noise). However, the colours in the images often look weird (even after clicking on a grey point). I suppose this must be where the light is bouncing off coloured things i.e wallpaper etc.

Yes, bounce it on the white ceiling. Walls can bounce fine, but are often more colored than the ceiling.

And if using Auto ISO, and if the ISO is high, you are also picking up the orange incandescent lights. Turn ISO down. Then as mentioned, using Manual flash with a 1/200 second shutter speed will keep out the colored incandescent/CFL colors. It all becomes pretty easy.

Some easy tips for White Balance Correction, with or without Raw

It is a fact of life, we have to deal with it. Digital does not have the guy at the film processing lab (making prints) doing it for us now.

- Buy a diffuser and try that

IMO, generally wasted time, money, and flash power. Not the answer - is not even the problems you are having. Things like umbrellas are fantastic, but the tiny diffusers are not at all the same thing.

- Eventually buy a faster prime lens with a wider aperture

That is good. Does not need to be prime - any f/2.8 lens performs better at f/4 than a f/4 lens wide open.

- Shoot in child mode

Indoors with flash in dim places, this is like P or Auto mode, you are back to shooting wide open again.
 
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WayneF

Senior Member
After doing some research on the net, am i right in thinking that the faster/wider aperture prime lenses are non VR?

Is this because they are faster and dont need the VR?

What kind of speed increase would we be talking about?


Generally, shorter lens have not implemented VR (so far). They do not magnify shake as much.
 

paul_b

Senior Member
Ok, my latest thinking:

I've bought a universal flash diffuser from a photo shop (see pic) and have used it on my external flash with it pointing directly at my child.

I have to admit the images are looking a lot better. The faces no longer have a blown out look to them. The light seems a lot more even & natural. I think i prefer this method for home photos compared to bouncing the flash off the ceiling because with the diffuser method there is minimal colour casts compared to the bouncing method.

I'm now looking into buying some better quality diffusers too and trying them out.

AJESSCA215116637.jpg
 
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