Justifiable Refund?

Hi,

I haven't made many posts here, but I am in quite a predicament. Anyone with experience in this type of situation is welcome to help a girl out!

I am a fairly new photographer. I've been at this for about 4 years and semi-professional for about 2. I've recently gained lots of traction in the wedding area of my business. I did a wedding in May. The groom was the older brother of a longtime friend. The bride, I had heard from the family was a little "rough around the edges" and quick to temper. I ignored all warnings and went ahead with it, giving them ridiculous deals on price because I am close with the groom's family. They paid me $2300 for my services which included the following (My retail values listed beside them) -

2 Hour Engagement Session ($200 value)
Custom 20 page Guestbook ($200 value)
200 5x5 Save the Date Cards ($400 value)
1 hour bridal session ($100 Value)
16x20 Mount Print ($85 Value)
Rehearsal Dinner Coverage (3 Hours) ($300 value)
Full wedding day coverage.
3x5 proofs of all Wedding Day images (500+ fully edited images) ($400~ value)
Online galleries for all sessions
50 page wedding Album ($500 value)

I paid a second shooter ($150) out of my own pocket when she refused my advice to add it to her package.

I am currently enrolled in college classes, and if any of you have ever taken summer courses, then you know they can be super demanding. I told her beforehand that the wedding gallery would take some time to be up, maybe a month, and that the Album would take a few months because I was in class and also because after my first month of class, I was moving 120 miles away and also starting a job in an unrelated field. She said she understood. As of August, she has all products aside from the album which I have ordered from Miller's and should be in within the next 3 or 4 days. She angrily contacted me about 2 weeks ago stating that she was very unhappy with the time frame. I told her I understood fully that she was frustrated and that for her patience, I would give her a USB drive of both the rehearsal and wedding day proofs. I told her I would be coming to town on Monday to deliver her drive. Because of work conflicts, I was unable to deliver until late this afternoon. She was very volatile during delivery and demanded a refund. I am fully aware that the length of time she has waited is a tad ridiculous. I take full responsibility and tried to patch things with the USB. Does she have grounds to sue for a refund? We did not sign a contract (I know, I know). The way I see it, I have done all I can do to make things better, if not for customer service than to protect my relationship with her Husband's family. If she receives all products paid for and there was no contract to set date of delivery, can she realistically get any money back? Because I gave them so much product, I didn't profit very much. I understood that from the beginning because they were friends, I didn't mind. Also, I need to mention they were VERY happy with the images. Any advice you can give me about this type of situation is greatly appreciated!

Thanks so much,

Krista

Although you do not have a contract, neither does she. Unless she can prove to the judge that delivery was an integral part of your verbal contract and that you violated the terms by taking too long to deliver, I wouldn't worry too much about a judgement in her favor. The fact you will have delivered all the items in the contract by the time the case arrives in small claims court will make it exceedingly difficult for her to prove her case. I would, however, use this as a lesson why you should never enter into a verbal contract and always have it in writing. Besides, I'm sure she was just venting her frustration (which I can somewhat understand given the admittedly long delivery times) and keep in mind that 90% or more of the people who claim they're going to take you to court never do. They usually think differently about it when they're calm and collected.

Are you a registered business? Did you collect and submit sales taxes? Collecting $2300 is a bit more than casually helping a friend and would have created an expectation of delivery in a timely fashion.

My thoughts in red, luckily, I'm not a judge. The lesson is to be very careful in the expectations you create and if you are not a legitimate business, you could create your own legal problems.

kaughtphotography said:

I am a fairly new photographer. (yet you charged $2300 for a wedding?).

I've recently gained lots of traction in the wedding area of my business. (Ok, you are a professional photographer).

They paid me $2300 for my services which included the following (My retail values listed beside them) -

2 Hour Engagement Session ($200 value)
Custom 20 page Guestbook ($200 value)
200 5x5 Save the Date Cards ($400 value)
1 hour bridal session ($100 Value)
16x20 Mount Print ($85 Value)
Rehearsal Dinner Coverage (3 Hours) ($300 value)
Full wedding day coverage.
3x5 proofs of all Wedding Day images (500+ fully edited images) ($400~ value)
Online galleries for all sessions
50 page wedding Album ($500 value) (You are obviously a professional and I have expectations)

I was moving 120 miles away and also starting a job in an unrelated field. (That's not her problem)

She angrily contacted me about 2 weeks ago stating that she was very unhappy with the time frame. (yea, she gave you $2300 and you did not deliver)

Because of work conflicts, I was unable to deliver until late this afternoon. (you were supposed to be working for her)

She was very volatile during delivery and demanded a refund. (I would too)

I am fully aware that the length of time she has waited is a tad ridiculous. (Good, looks like you need to make things right, 6 months and no wedding album? That's more than a tad ridiculous)

Does she have grounds to sue for a refund? (maybe not, but I would pursue criminal prosecution as this being a scam)

We did not sign a contract (I know, I know). (you created viable expectations).., (If you gave them the above list of services and they paid you, you have established a contract, said payment becomes proof of the agreement).

The way I see it, I have done all I can do to make things better, if not for customer service than to protect my relationship with her Husband's family. (you need to make this right and reconsider whether you can fulfill the needs of future customers)

If she receives all products paid for and there was no contract to set date of delivery, can she realistically get any money back? (if the time frame is unreasonable, there could be a value placed on it)

Because I gave them so much product, I didn't profit very much. (That's your problem)

Also, I need to mention they were VERY happy with the images. (Doesn't matter, sorry)
Krista

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Sorry but i'm with Rick. If you walk away from this with little consequence. Learn from it.

If you have delivered everything but the final album and she was happy with all of it then maybe a discount would be in order. maybe just charge your cost of the album. or maybe even less. If she wants all her money back then she would need to return all that you have given her.

Six months hey...Not very professional....If I paid you $2300 I would expect all products within six weeks...

Sorry, but I would have to side with your client on this.
While I'm sure that there may have been unforeseeable circumstances, you did charge professional service prices to the customer. Yet you provided sub-par service with the customer.
In a claims court, the payment for services is what would end up hurting your case.

When it comes down to friends and family, you should have shown restraint and walked away from the deal to begin with.

But GL with what happens.

kaughtphotography said:

I am a fairly new photographer. I've been at this for about 4 years and semi-professional for about 2. I've recently gained lots of traction in the wedding area of my business.

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I checked out your Facebook page, since you have no website and are not an actual business.

kaughtphotography said:

They paid me $2300 for my services...

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If I said what I really wanted to say here, I'd probably be banned for life.

kaughtphotography said:

I paid a second shooter ($150) out of my own pocket when she refused my advice to add it to her package.

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Not the client's problem. Did you copy and paste your pricing from somewhere else? If you're unable to cover a wedding yourself, include the cost of a 2nd shooter in your pricing structure and don't make it an a la carte option in the first place.

kaughtphotography said:

I am currently enrolled in college classes...they can be super demanding.

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So is being a real photographer.

kaughtphotography said:

She angrily contacted me...she was very unhappy...she was frustrated...I was unable to deliver...she was very volatile during delivery and demanded a refund.

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Your client paid for a professional photographer. What she got was a busy college student with a camera who charged $2300 for a product she was not able to deliver.

kaughtphotography said:

I am fully aware that the length of time she has waited is a tad ridiculous. I take full responsibility and tried to patch things with the USB.

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6 months goes well beyond a tad and drops right into the lap of unacceptable. But hey, you gave her a $5 USB, right? What is this chick's problem?

kaughtphotography said:

Does she have grounds to sue for a refund? We did not sign a contract (I know, I know). The way I see it, I have done all I can do to make things better, if not for customer service than to protect my relationship with her Husband's family. If she receives all products paid for and there was no contract to set date of delivery, can she realistically get any money back?

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Yes, she has grounds to sue in small claims court. As for customer service, I wouldn't count on positive word of mouth from this couple. Some of that traction you gained will be lost.

kaughtphotography said:

Because I gave them so much product, I didn't profit very much.

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At $2300, I find this extremely difficult to believe. In any case, this is yet another reason why I think you probably shoplifted your pricing from somewhere else.

kaughtphotography said:

Any advice you can give me about this type of situation is greatly appreciated!

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​Stay in school. Don't give up that day job you drove 120 miles to get, this photography gig probably isn't for you.

A few harsh responses on here but I understand them, a lot of these guys probably are professional photographers and are worried actions like yours give the rest a bad name.

For what it's worth, I think you probably set out with the best intentions and if the bride is happy with your pictures, you probably do have some skill.

However, you set yourself up to fail with that pricing and your own situation. As others have said, if I were paying that level of money I would expect a first class customer service; if I paid half what you charged I would still expect to have everything I paid for within 2 months tops.

Chances are, if you deliver ASAP, things may blow over. By the time it takes to go through any proceedings and with lack of written contract, it'd take a pretty substantial effort on their part to pursue you legally for what would most likely be a minimum payout (if any).

I would add though that you probably shouldn't expect to get any positive praise from this lady, which, in the end is the bread and butter of wedding photography, word of mouth and referrals. If anything, she may go out of her way to discredit you.

If I were in your shoes, this would be an expensive lesson for me. Good Luck.

I'm not a lawyer (thank God) so I can't really address legal issues but what I can address is what is about to happen to your reputation, going down and never forget how fast the news can spread. We have some photographers locally that promise more than they deliver, are slow to respond and finish a project, their reputations reflect it but what makes me angry it spreads over to the rest of us as being non professional overall. Do what is right (even if it costs you$) and try to salvage your reputation or suffer the damage to your reputation as the photog that doesn't deliver. Just my 2 cents.

Ps; I hate weddings and don't want them anymore!