SB-700 and the diffuser dome

One of the tasks I set for myself this summer was to learn more about flash photography. Way back in the film days I had a three flash setup for my Olympus OM-2n and had all the umbrellas and stands to match. They worked great and I got very good results. But that is not what I am doing now since I want to do more outdoors and mobile shooting. 1 on camera flash is the push at this time. Later I will move on to other styles using multiple flashes and off camera flash so that is not on the table for now.

Recently I was at a wedding and the photographer was shooting a D800 with a SB-910 attached. She was moving fast outdoors shooting multiple things in fast order. I noticed that she had a diffuser dome on her flash and that the flash was pointing either up or sometime slightly back but never at the subject. Some of these were under a tent so I can see that there would have been some bounce but she was doing the same thing when not under the tent. Was the effect more of a bare bulb just to fill in slight shadows or am I missing the point somehow?

I did see her photos later and I looked for the ones that I questioned about and they were outstanding. If you follow my posts you will know that I don't say that lightly. I had shot a few without flash in the same area and they were passable at best so I know the flash was doing good things to the pictures.

I had forgotten that my flash came with the diffuser dome till I saw her using it. Had to come home and find it. Is the factory dome a good option or is there a better option for on camera/on flash dome?

Can give you some thoughts from my limited experience with the SB700..
the smaller diffuser that comes along with the green & orange filters is quite useless.

the larger dome does perform better, but the light is not as diffused or soft as you'd like.
you can obviously reduce the power output but for desireable results, you would need a dedicated diffuser (the large one that sits on the flash) or to reflect it via reflectors, umbrellas etc.

Tracsoft - Don Kuykendall said:

I noticed that she had a diffuser dome on her flash and that the flash was pointing either up or sometime slightly back but never at the subject. Some of these were under a tent so I can see that there would have been some bounce but she was doing the same thing when not under the tent. Was the effect more of a bare bulb just to fill in slight shadows or am I missing the point somehow?

Click to expand...

The purpose of the little dome is to be aimed up, and to be clear, to allow normal bounce flash to work. It also intentionally allows considerable spill to exit forward, for direct frontal fill. Desireably, the bounce light ought to be stronger than the fill, by at least a stop. We can judge the two shadows to see this relation... if we care enough to actually look.

The pull-out white bounce card does this job easier and better, without any restriction of the overhead bounce power, and it can also be pulled only halfway out (control), etc. A little direct forward fill is good (shadows in eye sockets, etc). Too much simply washes out the bounce, and becomes direct flash again. We really ought to look at our results (critically), to see what happens. Beginners never how how to look, and "see". That is the big trick in learning lighting.

The dome also spills light in every direction. The wishful thinking is that it bounces off all the room walls all around, which hopefully makes it back to the subject, providing additional soft fill. One does need to consider the inverse square law however, and think out those distances. It might work in a tiny room.

Four Flash Photography Basics we must know - Soft Light (and the next page for hot shoe flash) shows direct comparisons, including the dome. We really should only treasure those results we can actually see happen,. Wishful thinking is rarely sufficient. We can see result, and if it has effect, it will be visible. If not visible, it did not happen, why bother?

The little dome is just too tiny to soften anything via direct flash. The flash head is still only two inches wide. Diffusion just means the light is scattered, and from two inches, it can only scatter outward, to miss the subject.

In contrast, from say a 40 inch (one meter) umbrella, up reasonably close (at distance comparable to the the diameter, or closer), the outer edges are scattered inward, to hit the subject from many different directions, from their left side, and from their right side, with each direction path filling and softening the shadows from every other direction path. Huge difference. Soft is created by Large lights.

WhiteLight said:

Can give you some thoughts from my limited experience with the SB700..
the smaller diffuser that comes along with the green & orange filters is quite useless.

the larger dome does perform better, but the light is not as diffused or soft as you'd like.
you can obviously reduce the power output but for desireable results, you would need a dedicated diffuser (the large one that sits on the flash) or to reflect it via reflectors, umbrellas etc.

Click to expand...

The dome that comes with the flash is the one I am talking about.

SW-14H Diffusion Dome from Nikon

WhiteLight said:

Can give you some thoughts from my limited experience with the SB700..
the smaller diffuser that comes along with the green & orange filters is quite useless....

Click to expand...

Just to be clear here, that smaller diffuser (the pull out one) is used for bounce flash, not directed at the subject. It's more of a diffused "gel", if you will. I don't see how you can say it's useless. It does serve a purpose, and I find it works well for its intended use.

WayneF said:

The purpose of the little dome is to be aimed up, and to be clear, to allow normal bounce flash to work. It also intentionally allows considerable spill to exit forward, for direct frontal fill. Desireably, the bounce light ought to be stronger than the fill, by at least a stop. We can judge the two shadows to see this relation... if we care enough to actually look.

The pull-out white bounce card does this job easier and better, without any restriction of the overhead bounce power, and it can also be pulled only halfway out (control), etc. A little direct forward fill is good (shadows in eye sockets, etc). Too much simply washes out the bounce, and becomes direct flash again. We really ought to look at our results (critically), to see what happens. Beginners never how how to look, and "see". That is the big trick in learning lighting.

The dome also spills light in every direction. The wishful thinking is that it bounces off all the room walls all around, which hopefully makes it back to the subject, providing additional soft fill. One does need to consider the inverse square law however, and think out those distances. It might work in a tiny room.

Four Flash Photography Basics we must know - Soft Light (and the next page for hot shoe flash) shows direct comparisons, including the dome. We really should only treasure those results we can actually see happen,. Wishful thinking is rarely sufficient. We can see result, and if it has effect, it will be visible. If not visible, it did not happen, why bother?

The little dome is just too tiny to soften anything via direct flash. The flash head is still only two inches wide. Diffusion just means the light is scattered, and from two inches, it can only scatter outward, to miss the subject.

In contrast, from say a 40 inch (one meter) umbrella, up reasonably close (at distance comparable to the the diameter, or closer), the outer edges are scattered inward, to hit the subject from many different directions, from their left side, and from their right side, with each direction path filling and softening the shadows from every other direction path. Huge difference. Soft is created by Large lights.

Click to expand...

I have worked extensively with umbrellas and truly love the results BUT that is not what I am after now. I am looking for a totally mobile, fast way of shooting outdoors using a single flash. Bounce is great and I use it indoors now and the white pop-up is always used. I figured that out the first time I shot. I have used the diffuser that is built in outdoors and indoors and I like the softness it gives too. Now on to outdoors where there is nothing to bounce off of and no time to set up multiple flash/umbrella systems.

To give you a little background as to what I am doing. This is not for a specific shoot. This it to study and learn each aspect of flash shooting starting with the base unit and working my way up. I feel if you do this you will always have the knowledge to get the best shot that you can no matter what you have with you at the time. Like recently I have been shooting in very low light and not using a tripod just to see how far I could go with the camera. Now I know the limits there. If I need to do it I now know what to expect. Like this weekend I was not planning to shooting at all other than a few candid shots while visiting my 87 year old mom. My niece was visiting and my mom insisted I go take some pictures of my niece's children so being the good son I said yes. Packed them in the car and went downtown and shot them. I never leave home without my LowePro Backpack and it does have my flash in it. Camera, Lens and Flash. IK was pretty pleased with the results but would like to see if they can be better.

fotojack said:

Just to be clear here, that smaller diffuser (the pull out one) is used for bounce flash, not directed at the subject. It's more of a diffused "gel", if you will. I don't see how you can say it's useless. It does serve a purpose, and I find it works well for its intended use.

Click to expand...

Sorry Jack
I meant useless in the current circumstance that Don was talking about

OK, thanks, White. I was just wondering about what you were trying to say.

Don...I don't see what else you could do to make that shot any better. Looks pretty damn good to me, bud! I wouldn't change a thing about it.

Hi Don,

With all my cameras, when I use a flash (SB 900), it is always with the original dome
AND a diffusor.

Alone, my flash heads may be focused or zoomed. With the original dome, it is set
automatically to 14 mm. This means a lot of lost light. Therefore, the addition of the
diffusor that will redirect the light towards the subject without any harsh shadows.

This has proven a better solution than anything else because the setup is not fragile,
less cumbersome, lighter, battery gentle, and far less expensive than others that I
have tried. ExpoImaging - Rogue FlashBenders

I noticed that she had a diffuser dome on her flash and that the flash was
pointing either up or sometime slightly back but never at the subject. Some
of these were under a tent so I can see that there would have been some
bounce but she was doing the same thing when not under the tent. Was the
effect more of a bare bulb just to fill in slight shadows?

I am not quite sure (I haven't seen the working conditions)! You and I understand very
well what she was doing in the tent but for the outside shots…~.

One thing I'm sure of is that I hate to see that flash light was used for shot. You know
you've use your flash right when you don't see it!

The original filter holder is not useless… see: http://nikonites.com/photo-feedback/15261-motorcycle-study.html#post174676

fotojack said:

OK, thanks, White. I was just wondering about what you were trying to say.

Don...I don't see what else you could do to make that shot any better. Looks pretty damn good to me, bud! I wouldn't change a thing about it.

Click to expand...

I am pretty leased with that one BUT I want to learn to use all the weapons I have in my arsenal.

If I don't have a project to work on I get very bored. I went back to school in my 50s and got a degree in computer programming just for fun. So now relearning photography in the digital age is my new project. Pushing my skills in PhotoShop is a top priority right now and I am progressing there pretty good but the outdoors flash questions have come up twice recently and that caught my attention so now I must master it before I go on to much else.

Tracsoft - Don Kuykendall said:

My niece was visiting and my mom insisted I go take some pictures of my niece's children so being the good son I said yes. Packed them in the car and went downtown and shot them. I never leave home without my LowePro Backpack and it does have my flash in it. Camera, Lens and Flash. IK was pretty pleased with the results but would like to see if they can be better.

Click to expand...

I don't know any magic answer about how to get soft light out of a tiny flash. Soft comes from large close lights. It might be a reflector, but it is still large and close. Large makes light from many angles, which fills the shadows by light from the other angles. Close makes large bigger.

Your picture is excellent. IMO, it has that special look of getting both exposure and white balance just right. Magic often happens then.

My assumption is this picture is backlighted by fairly bright sun, with direct fill, but not too little, and not quite too much, just about right. Was it TTL BL, or TTL with maybe about -1.3EV compensation? I don't know what the forum rules are about blocking image access, hiding Exif, if even Exif exists? Some are blocked, some are not. I may be wrong, but seems only external source images might still have Exif? Pity, Exif sometimes provides answers.

But your picture properly backed off on fill to leave slight traces of the sun, shadows on forehead and nose (on camera left), under chin, etc. That gradient shading is lots better, lots more interesting, than fully flat, or fully dark.

Frontal direct fill from camera position is flat, to a fault if by itself. The nearly-on-lens-axis flash illuminates exactly the same angle the lens sees, so any shadows the lens sees is filled, and the inline flash does not make additional shadows. That is the definition of flat. But no shadows actually is as "soft" as filled shadows (no sharp edges of harsh shadows). Flat is soft (often to a fault). I don't think a four foot umbrella AT THE CAMERA would have changed much (except four feet is getting pretty far from the lens axis, and would have had a little effect).

But the basic concept of fill is to be flat frontal fill, near lens axis. To fill the shadows the lens sees, without making more shadows itself. That fits right in with using bare camera flash for fill in bright sun.

It is the off-camera main light we want to be soft.

Nothing new there. I have been doing multi light lighting since 1970. Full TV lighting then. Had a full photo studio at home in the 80s with 14 ft ceiling and roll backgrounds. I have 5 umbrellas in my photo closet now. I understand those concepts well. Now back to single flash on the go lighting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

Tracsoft - Don Kuykendall said:

I am pretty leased with that one BUT I want to learn to use all the weapons I have in my arsenal.

If I don't have a project to work on I get very bored. I went back to school in my 50s and got a degree in computer programming just for fun. So now relearning photography in the digital age is my new project. Pushing my skills in PhotoShop is a top priority right now and I am progressing there pretty good but the outdoors flash questions have come up twice recently and that caught my attention so now I must master it before I go on to much else.

Click to expand...

​Great spirit Don!

Tracsoft - Don Kuykendall said:

Nothing new there. I have been doing multi light lighting since 1970. Full TV lighting then. Had a full photo studio at home in the 80s with 14 ft ceiling and roll backgrounds. I have 5 umbrellas in my photo closet now. I understand those concepts well. Now back to single flash on the go lighting.

Click to expand...

Sorry Don, I did not mean any offense. I imagined I was talking to everyone in the forum.

Tracsoft - Don Kuykendall said:

I have worked extensively with umbrellas and truly love the results BUT that is not what I am after now. I am looking for a totally mobile, fast way of shooting outdoors using a single flash. Bounce is great and I use it indoors now and the white pop-up is always used. I figured that out the first time I shot. I have used the diffuser that is built in outdoors and indoors and I like the softness it gives too. Now on to outdoors where there is nothing to bounce off of and no time to set up multiple flash/umbrella systems.

To give you a little background as to what I am doing. This is not for a specific shoot. This it to study and learn each aspect of flash shooting starting with the base unit and working my way up. I feel if you do this you will always have the knowledge to get the best shot that you can no matter what you have with you at the time. Like recently I have been shooting in very low light and not using a tripod just to see how far I could go with the camera. Now I know the limits there. If I need to do it I now know what to expect. Like this weekend I was not planning to shooting at all other than a few candid shots while visiting my 87 year old mom. My niece was visiting and my mom insisted I go take some pictures of my niece's children so being the good son I said yes. Packed them in the car and went downtown and shot them. I never leave home without my LowePro Backpack and it does have my flash in it. Camera, Lens and Flash. IK was pretty pleased with the results but would like to see if they can be better.

Click to expand...

​What was your flash set-up for this shot?

Rick M said:

​What was your flash set-up for this shot?

Click to expand...

Straight flash iTTL SB-700 The built in diffuser was in use at the time. Camera Set on P, Thumb wheel used to move up the Aperture for F10

My son got married a while back and the Bride picked the photographer (mistake) Outdoor wedding and I was watching the photographer closely. The first thing I noticed was that she was using a flash and it was pointed straight up. During a break in the action I waled over to her said "You do realize that your flash is pointed straight up don't you?" She said to me "I am using bounce flash. That is the way you are supposed to do it!" Trying not to laugh to hard I looked up and said "What are you bouncing it off of?" She just looked up and walked off. She continued to shoot that way the rest of the evening. Pictures were terrible. Lucky they did not stay married to long so pictures not needed.

That is a little different than the wedding recently were the dome was in use. I am thinking the dome was used as more of a bard bulb effect. I did notice the dome she used was a little bigger than the one that came with my SB-700. Next chance I get I am going to try the dome outside in some pretty harsh sunlight, like at high noon. Will try it straight on and straight up. The best way to see is to just try it.

I just got the rogue flash bender. I used it at my nieces wedding for fill flash. Since it was brightly overcast and I needed to hit some of the shaded areas.

That looks great. How did the shadows in the eye sockets look without the flash?

looked dark. like raccoons. The light was ever changing on me. I also had a hard time seeing the screen in the bright light and I was afraid It wasn't turning out.

I'm still in the learning stage of this flash bender. I like the lighting it gives. You can bend the unit every which way. I would like another one so I can use a flash on the camera while my sb700 has a bender on a stand. They are only $40. The large one I ordered is bulky. But, reading up on this bender I have learned a trick to keep from causing the flash head to fall when shooting.