Speedlight setup for D3100

MrNudge

Senior Member
Hi

I am very much new to photography and love my D3100 but I was going to buy a cheap starter strobe kit from amazon BUT I really like the portability of speedlights.

My question is how can I set up 2 speedlights on stands with umbrellas etc? I know the D3100 doesn't have commander mode so what would I need to achieve this?

I haven't got a lot of money but if push comes to shove I will save up but to get my started I need a cheap setup. I can work manual mode with the D3100 but not the lights. I know I might have to manually setup each light for every photo so manual mode is really out of the question or shall I just buy another body?

Any help is appreciated

Thanks
 

§am

Senior Member
I did briefly look at remotes which have a 'commander' transmitter and anything up to four receivers - have a look on fleabay :)
 

carguy

Senior Member
Hi

I am very much new to photography and love my D3100 but I was going to buy a cheap starter strobe kit from amazon BUT I really like the portability of speedlights.

My question is how can I set up 2 speedlights on stands with umbrellas etc? I know the D3100 doesn't have commander mode so what would I need to achieve this?

I haven't got a lot of money but if push comes to shove I will save up but to get my started I need a cheap setup. I can work manual mode with the D3100 but not the lights. I know I might have to manually setup each light for every photo so manual mode is really out of the question or shall I just buy another body?

Any help is appreciated

Thanks

Welcome :)

I'm new to off camera lighting myself. I've learned a few things by surfing this site & Strobist. My starter stand/umbrella setup arrived just yesterday, here is a link to the items I ordered.

http://nikonites.com/flashes/12307-new-off-camera-flash-setup-way.html

For $67 (US) I bought an umbrella, stand and trigger setup. I have a D40 and SB-700 and have shot a couple dozen images using this one light setup so far. This is a low budget setup.

Regarding your statement above about manually setting up the flash for each shot, that isn't entirely accurate. Once you've dialed in your settings in a studio environment, you should be good to go for the most part.

Look at inexpensive speedlights like Neweer & Yongnuo 560.

Good Luck!
 

WayneF

Senior Member
Hi

I am very much new to photography and love my D3100 but I was going to buy a cheap starter strobe kit from amazon BUT I really like the portability of speedlights.

My question is how can I set up 2 speedlights on stands with umbrellas etc? I know the D3100 doesn't have commander mode so what would I need to achieve this?

I haven't got a lot of money but if push comes to shove I will save up but to get my started I need a cheap setup. I can work manual mode with the D3100 but not the lights. I know I might have to manually setup each light for every photo so manual mode is really out of the question or shall I just buy another body?

Any help is appreciated

Thanks


Manual flash mode becomes an advantage for umbrellas. However, a hand held flash meter is very handy to set the levels, with respect to each other, and for the camera aperture. This is called "control". It could be done by trial and error (one light is very easy, but matching more gets much harder), but about the third time, you will realize the advantage of the light meter. It lets you set up the same situation again, same as last time, real easy.

The umbrellas are relatively fixed, not much is going to change. Manual mode lets you set it up, and then it stays set. And the only option for TTL is a Commander anyway.

Triggering modes are a PC sync cord, optical slaves, or radio triggers. These are all for manual flash mode. Commander is the only choice allowing TTL (and then only two or maybe three flashes).

In a studio situation with umbrellas, optical slaves are very inexpensive and very reliable (more than Commander, because it is full working power level triggering them, instead of a minumum power command). Some speedlights build in optical slaves, and all studio lights do. They are very mainstream in a studio situation. Whereas radio possibly may be overkill, but radio becomes good for great distances, obstacles, or bright sun, but in the studio, optical slaves are easy.

For optical slaves, you do have to trigger one flash some other way, then it triggers the slaves. That one could be a PC sync cord, could be a radio trigger, or could be the camera popup flash at lowest manual power level.
 
Last edited:

MrNudge

Senior Member
I did briefly look at remotes which have a 'commander' transmitter and anything up to four receivers - have a look on fleabay :)

I am still not there yet. I really need to know a couple of things before I shell out on new equipment.

My questions are:

Can I buy a speedlight but have it on this hot shoe cable and still be able to use TTL?

Will I be able to control a second speedlight TTL or do I need another gadget to accomplish this?

I appreciate your help
 

carguy

Senior Member
I am still not there yet. I really need to know a couple of things before I shell out on new equipment.

My questions are:

Can I buy a speedlight but have it on this hot shoe cable and still be able to use TTL?

Will I be able to control a second speedlight TTL or do I need another gadget to accomplish this?

I appreciate your help
Cable setups like that will usually retain TTL functionality.
 

WayneF

Senior Member
My questions are:

Can I buy a speedlight but have it on this hot shoe cable and still be able to use TTL?

Yes, a hot shoe extension cable will let the flash do anything it could do directly on the hot shoe.

Will I be able to control a second speedlight TTL or do I need another gadget to accomplish this?

Yes, this hot shoe extension includes acting as a commander, if the flash has that capability.

Two downsides.

Cameras without Commander can use a flash as a commander, but they still do not have the FV Lock feature. Using the Nikon CLS Remote Wireless Flash System

So there is high risk of getting pictures of the subject blinking when using Commander without FV Lock.


And these cords are short, however they should work as a fill light in an umbrella, which should be very near the camera anyway.
 
Last edited:

MrNudge

Senior Member
Yes, a hot shoe extension cable will let the flash do anything it could do directly on the hot shoe.



Yes, this hot shoe extension includes acting as a commander, if the flash has that capability.

Two downsides.

Cameras without Commander can use a flash as a commander, but they still do not have the FV Lock feature. Using the Nikon CLS Remote Wireless Flash System

So there is high risk of getting pictures of the subject blinking when using Commander without FV Lock.


And these cords are short, however they should work as a fill light in an umbrella, which should be very near the camera anyway.

I will get a speedlight with commander mode on a stand connected to my D3100 via a hot shoe cable but the second light will be on another stand, so my question is... How will I get the second speedlight to flash?

Thanks for your help

Read more: http://nikonites.com/flashes/12520-speedlight-setup-d3100.html#ixzz2PoNDbeev
 

MrNudge

Senior Member
I will get a speedlight with commander mode on a stand connected to my*D3100*via a hot shoe cable but the second light will be on another stand, so my question is... How will I get this second speedlight to flash?

Thanks for your help
 

WayneF

Senior Member
I will get a speedlight with commander mode on a stand connected to my*D3100*via a hot shoe cable but the second light will be on another stand, so my question is... How will I get this second speedlight to flash?


If speaking of TTL flash, then one flash can work on the hot shoe, or if connected to the hot shoe with the hot shoe extension cord.

The only way to have multiple TTL flashes is by using the Commander, which is built into some Nikon camera models, and also into some Nikon flash units. There is no other way to have multiple TTL flashes in the Nikon system. See Using the Nikon CLS Remote Wireless Flash System about it. This commander could be in a flash on a hot shoe cord (but the cords are very short). This Commander provides the remote wireless triggering. This TTL solution may not be the most inexpensive solution, and without the FV Lock feature, pictures of blinking will be a probable problem in pictures of people (the commander flashes commands in their face, causing them to blink at just the wrong time).

But if all flashes are in Manual flash mode, then flashes can be less expensive, and triggering becomes much simpler, and no blinking issues. Then for triggering, you can use PC sync cords, or simple optical slave units, or radio triggers, or any combination of those, to trigger the other flashes. See How to trigger speedlights Off camera

 
Last edited:

MrNudge

Senior Member
If speaking of TTL flash, then one flash can work on the hot shoe, or if connected to the hot shoe with the hot shoe extension cord.

The only way to have multiple TTL flashes is by using the Commander, which is built into some Nikon camera models, and also into some Nikon flash units. There is no other way to have multiple TTL flashes in the Nikon system. See Using the Nikon CLS Remote Wireless Flash System about it. This commander could be in a flash on a hot shoe cord (but the cords are very short). This Commander provides the remote wireless triggering. This TTL solution may not be the most inexpensive solution, and without the FV Lock feature, pictures of blinking will be a probable problem in pictures of people (the commander flashes commands in their face, causing them to blink at just the wrong time).

But if all flashes are in Manual flash mode, then flashes can be less expensive, and triggering becomes much simpler, and no blinking issues. Then for triggering, you can use PC sync cords, or simple optical slave units, or radio triggers, or any combination of those, to trigger the other flashes. See How to trigger speedlights Off camera


Thanks for your reply and I will definitely go manual just purely for the control as from Auto mode experience I would have no control but I found a brilliant an old blog that explained everything that I needed to know too.
check it out and share it.
P.S. I will be back with some photo updates soon

Cheers
 

carguy

Senior Member
Thanks for your reply and I will definitely go manual just purely for the control as from Auto mode experience I would have no control but I found a brilliant an old blog that explained everything that I needed to know too.
check it out and share it.
P.S. I will be back with some photo updates soon

Cheers
Nice link, I'll read up myself. thanks!
 

MrNudge

Senior Member
Ok, this is going to be what I will buy for my set up. Just before I do can you all have a look and let me know if this will be good enough to get me started and if you have any suggestions feel free to comment
  1. Triggers
  2. x2 Yongnuo YN560
  3. x2 Umbrella
  4. x2 Brackets
  5. x2 stands
Total cost = £236.90
Will the above equipment work with my D3100 and be good enough to get me started?
 

carguy

Senior Member
Ok, this is going to be what I will buy for my set up. Just before I do can you all have a look and let me know if this will be good enough to get me started and if you have any suggestions feel free to comment
  1. Triggers
  2. x2 Yongnuo YN560
  3. x2 Umbrella
  4. x2 Brackets
  5. x2 stands
Total cost = £236.90
Will the above equipment work with my D3100 and be good enough to get me started?

That setup will work and will certainly get you started! Are those umbrellas 'shoot through' type by chance?

If you want to save a few more $ on the trigger, consider this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/CowboyStudio-NPT-04-Channel-Wireless-Receiver/dp/B004EBSC7E

This is the set I have and a few others as well. Great way to get your feet wet and not spend too much $$.
 

WayneF

Senior Member
You may want the white umbrellas with the black covers, for reflected use. Often better really, due to spill and power (2/3 of the power spills out the back of shoot through, which is serious spill), and you always have the choice of removing the covers or not.

And the light stands a little taller could be better for standing subjects. However, six feet is about all that will fit under eight foot ceilings, if with reflected umbrellas.
 

MrNudge

Senior Member
That setup will work and will certainly get you started! Are those umbrellas 'shoot through' type by chance?

If you want to save a few more $ on the trigger, consider this:
CowboyStudio NPT-04 4 Channel Wireless Hot Shoe Flash: Amazon.co.uk: Camera & Photo

This is the set I have and a few others as well. Great way to get your feet wet and not spend too much $$.

Hi

Will the above speedlights work with the triggers or are they just for skave use?

I keep hesitating about going manual! Should I be worried?
 

WayneF

Senior Member
Any Manual mode flash should work with the radio triggers. One exception would be the Nikon SB-400, which needs connection to the camera menu to work at all.

Or, that model of flash also includes a builtin optical slave trigger, so that it can trigger in sync from the flash of any other manual mode flash. You would need something like Radio to trigger that first one remotely however. Or you can use radio on both of them.

Manual vs TTL is a big question. Having a little prior flash experience would be helpful to really understand it. Both have to set the flash power level. Manual means it is you that does it.

TTL is automatic point&shoot flash, much like any compact camera does. Subjects vary however, and flash level is not always precisely correct, so often a slight bit of exposure tweaking is necessary, called Flash Compensation. If it is a little too dark or too bright, you simply tweak it a bit for a better result.

Manual flash is pretty easy for one flash. With just a little experience, you will know ahead of time if you want about 1/2 power or about 1/8 power, etc... i.e., you soon learn to just know a fairly close starting point. You see the result on the camera rear LCD, and the histogram can help too. Then you tweak the power level accordingly, to zero in on the exposure, the way you want it. One flash is not hard to do by trial and error, since you quickly learn about what it will need (called experience). Same as last time in same situation.

But for two manual flashes, you have to get the exposure right, but you also have to get the two flashes adjusted relative to each other. Trial and error still works, but two is at least twice as big a job. The easy way is to use a hand held flash meter, to simply set their individual power levels to the value you want them to be.

But regardless if it is TTL or Manual flash, some degree of watching and tweaking is always necessary, to get flash just right.

The Nikon Commander system can individually meter and control two flashes, and you can set the fill light level in the Commander menu, so that the fill light is set perhaps one stop low (ratio). Then you may still have to tweak flash compensation, but you can control the ratio in the Commander menu.

The Nikon Commander makes a hard job easy, and it certainly has some strong advantages, but it also has some strong downsides. One (of several) is that all the commander flashing causes pictures of the subject blinking. This can be controlled and bypassed by the FV Lock feature, but which is not present on camera models without a commander.

I think Manual flash is your answer, it also has some advantages (of control). But of course, it helps to have a way to control it. A hand held flash meter makes it easy. Short of that, I would suggest learning this white towel technique:

Chuck Gardner's White Towel Exposure Method
 
Last edited:

MrNudge

Senior Member
Thank for you great replies WayneF and thank you to everyone for making my nightmare less stressful.

I took the plunge and bought:
x2 Yongnuo YN560 iii (ebay)
x1 Yongnuo RF-603 (ebay)
x2 Manfrotto 026 (amazon)
x2 Westcott 43 inch umbrellas with removable black covers (amazon)
x2 DynaSun light stands (amazon)
Total cost £275-ish

I am now waiting the delivery of my items :) bit nervous but hopefully it will all come together!

cheers
 
Top