D3100 into a D3200 or Should I?

topgunwghs

Senior Member
My primary Uses.

1- Birding - Need=Sharp, Reach, Low Grain.
2- Landscape - Need=18mm equivalent, wide view, sharp, good with darkness and bright light behind mountains, etc...


Current Setup:
Nikon D3100 + 18-55mm AF-s VR DX for Landscape
55-300 AF-S VR DX for Birding.

Future Setup: (Unless I am Presented with better options)
Nikon D3200 + 18-300mm AF-S VR DX

History:
I have used many types of PaS models and loved them but wanted higher MP/Sensor Size/Print-ability/Options.
I then borrowed a Canon EOS (DISLIKE BUTTON LAYOUT AND CANON EVERYTHING) and quite a blast, left it on AUTO' mode and shot away with a Sigma x00-400mm and a 24mm lens. They were great shots but could have been better with f/stop,shutter,ISO settings. I love NIKON and decided to go DSLR entry with the D3100, I love it immensely, but still find myself disappointing shot after shot... I am still on a learning curve, but I would like to think of myself on the "Better" end of the learning spectrum. I shoot in JPEG Fine/L and in Manual mode, constantly playing with settings, but I am obsessed with shutter speed, due to the range and subject (BIRDS) that I want to shoot, therefore I need to CRANK the ISO and end up with a: Massively grainy/semi-sharp until I crop picture. Included photos are ranging from 8 to 100 feet away (Finch to Wigeon). Once I touch the crop I fall apart at what I see. I am not a huge fan of bringing more than 2 lenses with me on trip, I keep the longer birding lens on a hike for instant shots, then tripod and smaller lens for dramatic scenic views that I may stumble upon. I live in Estes Park, CO (Rocky Mountain National Park) constantly I found myself missing an amazing shot of a Mountain Lion or Bobcat or Birds, so now I practically EDC my camera with me.

Recent:
My better half purchased a Coolpix P510 and I am devastated with i see the quality, crispness, range and simplicity of the shots that she takes. I really don't want to take a step back and get another PaS but it's hard not to think about it now. I have done research and know that you cannot print past 4x6" bird photos with quality due to the sensor size, but when I see these pictures and crop/zoom on the image in PS, the grain is no worse than my usually already cropped 300mm to her 1000mm equivalent. Why doesn't every birder have one of these cameras, what are the true drawbacks? What setup can I have with at least half the reach and retain massive quality.

Current Need:
I am not ready nor have the funds for a full frame body. I am a full time student, volunteer at a wolf sanctuary and work here and there...
I want
to shoot birds with a body that can handle high ISO in order to have a good shutter speed from 1 to 75yards.
I want to stay at 2 lenses or less that I can reach out and touch birds reliably and cleanly, then back down to take mountain vista shots.
I need to keep this budget under $1,500 and sta relatively user friendly. I don't use "in camera" editing software and barely shoot video.
I need to print beautiful quality Fuji images at 20x30" or greater.


Please help, before I waste more money!

DSC_2720.jpgDSC_2701.jpgDSC_2690.jpgDSC_2638.jpgDSC_2637.jpgDSC_2341.jpgDSC_2295.jpg

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topgunwghs

Senior Member
Lady and I went out for a shoot and I have a comparison now.
All shots were taken under same conditions at the same time at the same distance.

Common Merganser 150-200 yards away.

Nikon D3100 Nikon P510
+ 55-300mm AF-S
DSC_3708.jpg P510 birds 139.jpg

Red-Tailed Hawk 40 yards away.

DSC_3698.jpg P510 birds 116.jpg

Black-Billed Magpie 3 feet away.

DSC_3658.jpg P510 birds 074.jpg

D3100 shots have slight P&S, P510 has none.
 

Rick M

Senior Member
The last shot sells me on the DSLR. The nice background in the shot on the left, the one on the right is terrible because there is too much DoF. Much less detail on the right.

If your only concern is a 1000mm lens, buy the P&S, that is the only advantage it will ever have (besides size).

I would get a D5100 or D5200 over a D3200.
 

topgunwghs

Senior Member
1) I was considering the 5200 over the 3200 but have only seen biased comparisons and reviews. What does it have that's better other than Auto Bracketing?

2) Is there a lens, lens+tc, digiscope that would be best for what i am looking to do? I read that the 3100 is pretty good for the entry, I just can't stand how it handles high ISO so poorly, and I need to have it cranked to shoot birds in the woods in shadows etc...
 

Cowboybillybob1

Senior Member
If you want to upgrae yor camera yet not add too many cofusing features why don't you check out a 5200. Great IQ wth a small oearing curve since you have experience with the D3100.

As far as a lens is concerned I have be using a Tamron 18-270 f/3.5. I ony carry the one and can cover most any situation. Sharp as a pin and I just love it.
The Tamron is $650 nt including the &100 mil in rebate. You can get a D5200, body only, for about $800 bucks. This keeps yu within your budget and you upgrae your camera while lightening the load with only one lens.

Sigma makes a similar lens 18-200 f/3.5 ($200) that gets great reviews but I have never used one. They also make an 18-250 for $400. Have not tried that one either.

The D5200 has 24MP and a better sesor. It handles high ISO better and the LCD screen flips out so you can easily get shots that are very low to the ground or yu can hold it high up and still frame your pics.
 
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Rick M

Senior Member
Might be worth checking for sensor scores, the D3200 and D5200 actually use a different sensor. If you don't care about bracketing, perhaps the D3200 will work for you.

Not a birder, perhaps another member will offer advice on lenses, but you won't get close to 1000mm without a hell of a lot of money.
 

topgunwghs

Senior Member
I realize long glass is expensive, and the longest in my budget range with AF-S is the 18-300mm all in one, many many great reviews with that lens and will probably be my choice. In the future I will probably get a Tamron or Sigma Manual focus with further reach, but for not I like the Auto Focus. What body would supply me with better high iso and noise reduction?

I am realizing, or believing that 300mm is my limit for a while, unless there is another lens out there such as 100-200mm + tc that would cost under $800 that I don't know of.
 

topgunwghs

Senior Member
Also, the D3100 has terrible In-Flight tracking for birds, and I am always using AF-S mode, Single Point and Dot metering. Would the 5200 have better tracking?

Or should I just keep the D3100 for now, and pick some perfect glass for better shooting?
 
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NFA Fabrication

Senior Member
Also, the D3100 has terrible In-Flight tracking for birds, and I am always using AF-S mode, Single Point and Dot metering. Would the 5200 have better tracking?

Or should I just keep the D3100 for now, and pick some perfect glass for better shooting?

Trying to autofocus on a flying bird I can see being virtually impossible. The camera is going to want to try to be focusing on way too many things at way too many depths. And manual focusing while moving can be a huge chore, but may be the most logical choice. And the lenses you are using are primarily "Kit lenses" and are not going to get you the most out of your camera. Quality long range glass can have a scary amount of digits on the price tag however...
 

topgunwghs

Senior Member
OK, aggravation is a mild way of putting my mood right now. I had a spectacular birding day today, 13 new Species! Also, I kept the D3100 and purchased the

Nikon 18-300mm f/3.5-5.6G AF-S DX Nikkor Lens

(I got this ALL-IN-ONE lens to replace my two kit lenses and hopefully all my problems would be solved on focal length and not having to swap lenses in the field)

I took a few bird pictures within 25ft of me the day it came in and they came out beautiful with great feather detail, I then took it out for a run and couldn't get a D@%^ thing to focus properly, there was absolutely ZERO pinpoint accuracy at 300mm and everything in view was an even blur, no matter how many times I bracketed in each setting, it is on the way back and I am ready to spend on actual good glass.

Mechanical Settings: VR-on M/A-on(COuldn't get focus even when manually dialing it in...



I am ready for some BIRD LENS suggestions.
A) Under $1200 Either a prime/Zoom/Zoom+TC
B) 500mm or more
C) Astonishingly crisp at full focal length


-Now, if those 3 necessities are down right impossible together, please let me know in the harshest way possible. I LOVE photography, I have a true passion for it. But, I am also a full time student, part time worker, volunteer at a local wolf sanctuary and other things. I will wait till I have a few more 0's in my bank account before I spend all my money on equipment. I'll go buy the P510 and call it a day... I understand it's a step backwards and it will upset me, but not as much as when I hold $1,000-$1,500 in NIKON DSLR next to a $350 PAS and the PAS blows my photo away...

Today's photos: same subjects, same time and same distance. No editing.

Nikon D3100 + 300mm (Coyote 80yds)
DSC_4105.jpg
Nikon P510 180=1000mm (Coyote 80yds)
P510 birds 014.jpg

Nikon D3100 + 300mm (Meadowlark 10yds)
DSC_4166.jpg
Nikon P510 180=1000mm (Meadowlark 10yds)
P510 birds 058.jpg
Nikon D3100 +300mm (Killdeer 30yds)
DSC_4196.jpg
Nikon P510 180=1000mm (Killdeer 30yds 15yds)
P510 birds 106.jpgNikon D3100 + 300mm (Snow Goose 50yds)
DSC_4197.jpg
Nikon P510 180=1000mm (Snow Goose 50yds)
P510 birds 091.jpg

Now, I understand the crop factor and mm ratio with the tiny sensor in the P510, and the fact that when you blow it up it will get all grainy and crappy... But, that apparently is not the case. I was happy and proud out there today to be shooting with my Nikon D3100 + 300mm and I knew I wouldn't get anywhere near as close to her view of the subjects, but I should have been able to get close to her quality when I blew them up. WRONG, at already terrible quality, if I zoom in one click it looks like a sketch and the P510 retained fairly nice quality all the way to say 5-8 zoom "clicks of the mouse wheel"...


This post could probably go to a different thread, so feel free to move this if need be Moderator. Thanks for looking, man I'm frustrated!...
 

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On that last group of comparisons it is very evident that the D3100 is much sharper. It is also more evident you just want a longer lens. I would bet that you could crop the D3100 shots to the same view as the P&S and the D3100 would still be sharper.
 

topgunwghs

Senior Member
@Don -- I tend to not drop below 1/500 at full focal. These shots were between 1/800-1/2500 resting on polls or my car window and held steady.

@Don -- Yes, reach is my main goal right now and when I cropped the photos from the D3100 they were 3x worse than the same crop factor/size view as the P510 took. What you stated is what I expected to see, so when reviewing on the camera I wasn't too discouraged, but when I got to the Comp, well yeah...
 

topgunwghs

Senior Member
The DSLR is capable of a much wider spectrum in both light and color, but when the 2 cameras are side by side on same settings shooting the same target (even with PS cropping) the PaS 7/10 has better detail retention.
 
@Don -- I tend to not drop below 1/500 at full focal. These shots were between 1/800-1/2500 resting on polls or my car window and held steady.
Shooting at those speeds what ISO are you shooting at? That may be your problem. Also are you shooting RAW or JPEG. If JPEG then it would need to be FINE / LARGE. There are also some sharpening adjustments that you can use.
 

topgunwghs

Senior Member
The results on the Nikon 18-300mm f/3.5-5.6G AF-S DX Nikkor Lens are drastically worse than on the 55-300mm AF-S VR DXand the reviews report different....
 

topgunwghs

Senior Member
Should I abandon the AF-S luxury and look in the TAMRON/SIGMA 50-500mm world, or will I have the same problem with softening at full focal length as this 18-300mm? When at 300mm on the 55-300 I can achieve much better results, but still not as far as I want.
 
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