Remote Flash Question

Cowboybillybob1

Senior Member
I am using a D3200 and am thinking of buying an SB-700. Using it remotely is the question and here is what I am thinking.
The D3200 does not have Commander Mode so I thought that if I open the pop up flash and set its flash compensation to its lowest setting. I can then set the SB-700 to remote and the pop up will trigger the remote SB-700.
The flash from the popup will be minimal.

The other option is that I buy an inexpensive wireless remote trigger. I have seen them for less than $50 USD.

Am I thinking correctly and if so what method would you use. I'd rather not spend any extra as the SB-700 is already pushing my budget.

Thanks for any help.
 

§am

Senior Member
Will the D3200 with the built-in flash trigger the SB-700 at all if there is no commander mode available?
I'm not sure it will.
 

Cowboybillybob1

Senior Member
Will the D3200 with the built-in flash trigger the SB-700 at all if there is no commander mode available?
I'm not sure it will.

I saw this video from DigitalRevCom on You Tube that does it with a D3100 which also does not have Commander Mode. Skip to 3:35 to see him explain it. He is also using a SB-900 but they both (700 and 900) have the remote setting.
 

Mike150

Senior Member
I've used the pop up flash of my D60 a number of times to activate the SB700 (in remote) It works quite well. Another nice thing is the SB700 comes with a couple of filters and a stand to set it on.
 

§am

Senior Member
Interesting indeed.

I'm going to have to give this a go when I get a chance, but potentially could as you say, save a bit of money for me too :)
 

WayneF

Senior Member
I am using a D3200 and am thinking of buying an SB-700. Using it remotely is the question and here is what I am thinking.
The D3200 does not have Commander Mode so I thought that if I open the pop up flash and set its flash compensation to its lowest setting. I can then set the SB-700 to remote and the pop up will trigger the remote SB-700.
The flash from the popup will be minimal.

Yes, exactly, it will be no problem at all. You do not use Flash Compensation however, you set the internal flash to its Manual flash mode, and then set its lowest manual power level in that same menu system. Flash Compensation is about TTL, it does not affect Manual flash. You cannot use TTL mode to trigger it, the preflash will trigger it (there are ifs and buts, but just don't).

Then it may be better than the Commander, because obstacles won't be much problem - if the flash is hidden, the reflections from walls will help it (although some cases may need a little bit more power). The lowest possible power flash will trigger the SB-700 SU-4 mode (which should be in its sub-men Manual setting). Line of sight, 1/128 power on a D300 internal flash will trigger a SB-800 SU-4 at 130 feet.

The other option is that I buy an inexpensive wireless remote trigger. I have seen them for less than $50 USD.

That would work too.
 
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Cowboybillybob1

Senior Member
Thanks to all for the great feedback. Wayne, thanks especially for the proper flash setting on the camera.


I think there are a lot of shooters with some experience that are not aware of this.

Thanks again. As soon as I get the extra cash an SB-700 will be mine.
 

RockyNH_RIP

Senior Member
Wayne, also thanks for the settings... I was able to get it to work but had to be in SU-4 and you stated that so I was golden.. now to learn how to use/control it!! :tennis:

Pat in NH
 

Cowboybillybob1

Senior Member
Hello Wayne,
Just checked it out this afternoon and it works like a charm!
Is SU-4 a Nikon term or is it generic. If I wanted to add another flash manuel mode would not be enough it would have to have SU-4 available?
 

RockyNH_RIP

Senior Member
Hello Wayne,
Just checked it out this afternoon and it works like a charm!
Is SU-4 a Nikon term or is it generic. If I wanted to add another flash manuel mode would not be enough it would have to have SU-4 available?

Paul, want to share a picture or two?? Glad that it worked...

Pat in NH
 

WayneF

Senior Member
Hello Wayne,
Just checked it out this afternoon and it works like a charm!
Is SU-4 a Nikon term or is it generic. If I wanted to add another flash manuel mode would not be enough it would have to have SU-4 available?


Actually, a SU-4 is a separate hardware optical slave for any old Nikon flash, see Nikon SU-4 Wireless Remote Slave TTL Flash Controller 3070 B&H

The same SU-4 function is built into some of the current CLS models, SB-700, SB-800, SB-900 (not the SB-400 or SB-600), so the menus just call it SU-4 mode, and old timers understand. It just means optical slave (but it is a really good one, sensitive).

So if adding another manual flash (could be another SB-700, or another Nikon with SU-4 in it, Or could even be an old or a cheapy other brand, etc, whatever, so long as it can do manual flash), and you could use a SU-4 unit (above), or you can just add a $10 class Ebay cheapy optical slave to the flash foot of those. See Optical slave triggers for speedlights They won't have the same impressive range (triggering), but they will work indoors in most situations.


This next is unimportant today, with your digital camera, but the history is that the SU-4 was rather special. It was not your ordinary optical slave. More sensitive than most, but it also provided multiple remote TTL flash for film cameras doing film TTL.

Film TTL: The camera watched and metered the real time flash reflected from the film surface. When it saw enough light, it quenched the camera hot shoe flash off, to terminate the flash exposure. The remote units with SU-4 watched this master, and the SU-4 Auto mode tells them to stop when the master stopped. So this was multi-flash TTL for film cameras. The individual lights could not be metered or controlled, but they all could quit at once.


Digital iTTL: The digital sensor cannot reflect like film did (anti-aliasing filter, etc). So now, iTTL fires a preflash which the camera meters, and the camera sets the flash units power level accordingly, then the shutter opens and the flashes are triggered, and the flashes use the power they were programmed to be. Other than one single flash on the hot shoe (communication), this requires the Commander to do multiple iTTL flash (to do this communication). But, now each light can be metered and controlled individually. So there are pluses and minuses, but the technology changes.
 
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fotojack

Senior Member
Excellent info, Wayne....and much appreciated that you took the time to explain all this. hmmmm....I wonder if this would work with my D40.......I'll have to try.

Ya learn something new every day, right? :) Even for old coots like me! :)
 

Cowboybillybob1

Senior Member
Thanks Wayne. You have given me a lot to chew on. The more I learn the more I realize I don't know.

Pat, as soon as I have some good shots I will post them. A remote flash makes your session a lot more versatile but also makes it more complex to a newbie like me.

I really dig learning this stuff.

Thanks again Wayne for all the time you put in explaining this to me. I'll make sure to pass it on when appropriate.
 

WayneF

Senior Member
Should not encourage me. :D The thing to be careful of (when reading specs or manuals) is that Nikon has had three flavors of TTL flash.

1. TTL - Film camera TTL
2. D-TTL - early digital TTL
3. iTTL - current digital TTL

All very different, and incompatible.
When Nikon specs or manuals say TTL, they specifically mean Film TTL (no bets about exceptions).
For example, this SU-4 description at B&H says it does TTL, which specifically means Film TTL. iTTL is a whole different system.
For example, the SB-600 and SB-800 were backwards compatible to do any flavor the camera could do (any of the three), and sections of those manuals speak of TTL, D-TTL, and iTTL. When it says TTL, it specifically means Film TTL - without ever saying the word Film. It says TTL. TTL does not mean iTTL.

When you see Nikon cables called TTL cables, those have three pins, and are for Film TTL remotes, done either that way, or with the SU-4. TTL does NOT mean iTTL. iTTL cannot use any cable (other than the SC-28 type hot shoe extension cords for one flash). Wireless Commander is used for multiple or remote iTTL flash.


Except - another situation: The camera and flash MENUS are different... Menu space is limited, and TTL there is an abbreviation, the generic Through The Lens meaning without being specific of flavor, and it means whatever TTL flavor this hardware can do.


The flashes with SU-4 mode have Auto and Manual sub-modes. Auto was for Film TTL, to quit when master flash quit. Auto "could" still work for digital manual flash (but would flash twice at digital iTTL preflash). But the idea is its Manual sub-mode for digital manual flash, and control is better then (but manual). You program the flash level manually in the remote flash.
 
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