Not sure about my new D800

As previously posted I replaced my D600 with a D800 after about a month. I shot the D600 like my D300s and was rewarded with very nice images in terms of colour, crispness and the high ISO noise handling. I was not looking for anything better in these respects from the D800 (I just prefer the 300/700/880 bodies) however so far I feel that it's actually worse. I use the 50mm 1.8g, 24-120F4 and the 70-200 2.8 VRII which should all be good for this camera. I think my main issue is focus related. Out of the box all images were off due to back focusing at the wide apertures. This wasn't something I went looking for, I just noticed when I took people pictures the wrong bits were in focus (Ears/nose rather than eyes). I've spent hours trying to fine tune the lenses and each time I thought I had it nailed it seemed to change again. I then read up on focus shifting which explained why if I dialed a wide aperture in with the fine tune a small one became bad and vice versa. I have never been aware of this on any other camera and in reality the fastest lens is only 1.8 which is at the slowest end of this phenomena according to what I've read.

I have concentrated on the 50mm and the 24-120 as they seemed the worse. I think I now have them where I can get reasonable shots at a stop or so past wide open. Interestingly the 50mm 1.8g does not seem as good as the 24-120 at F5.6, to the point where I'm wondering if I should sell it.

I know the camera requires good technique which I think is ok anyway. I've had no issues with the D600 or any other camera. Also I have done all the testing on a tripod with MUP set.

The only thing I wonder is if looking at these images at 100% is the same as as a 600 at 100% in terms of the quality I should see, given the bigger/wider image size.

I have seen comparisons on various websites and although they all praised the D800 a few compared the photos from both the D600 and D800 and the D600 often had less noise which is a bit strange for such a top-end camera

To be honest I haven't got as far as looking at noise. It may just be a case of setting the wrong expectation in my mind.

Do you suppose you're running into the high resolution effect where now you can see very subtle imperfections in your glass that you could not see under a lower resolution? Several reviewers have shown that if you down sample these high res shots to 12 or 16 mp you no longer see any issues with sharpness or focus. And yes, there's a learning curve for handheld shooting with the D800 and I think my time with the D7000 really helped me a lot but I still have to make a few adjustments.

As far as glass, you didn't really elaborate on your 70-200, how does that lens fair?

Dave

A few points. Firstly it is back focussing rather than not focussing, so not a resolution induced effect. This is compounded by the focus shifting between apertures.

Secondly, The 70-200 VRII seems better but I haven't used it much vs the others. As it's such a good lens it alway look better than anything else I've got. That said I haven't checked the focus point. The other day I shot a load of birds at 2.8 the other day and they didn't look to bad. I rarely use any other aperture on that lens.

Thirdly, whilst I can handhold pretty well once I've set the lens, the issues have manifested themselves on a tripod with the mirror up.

I never saw any of this on the D600 and that's not that far short in pixels. Equally if its only any good on a tripod if you down sample it would be a waste of time.

As time goes by I wonder if the 50mm is more of a culprit as the 24-120 isn't too bad now I've tuned it. It's better at F4 than the 50 is at F5.6. Maybe I have a bad copy as that should be a good lens on the D800.

I do agree that all those pixels will allow you too see any imperfections if they are there. Like many I tend to go to 1:1 in Lightroom to check the images and that a lot more detail on the screen than I'm used to.

I took some landscape the other day and was surprised when I zoomed into a distant dot only to find quite a detailed house.

I think the lenses are at fault here, not the camera. They may be calibrated improperly. The D800 has the ability to adjust the focus plane of the lens and you can bring the back focus forward. Off the top of my head, I don't remember the menu, but you can look it up. You can set up to 20 lens for special adjustment.

Check your lenses.

I have all three of those lens except my 70-200VR Is the VR1 no problems at all with my D800 90% of my wildlife shots are handheld with either the 300f4 or 70-200VR1. If these lens work well on your D300s I would send the D800 back to Nikon for adjustments.

The focus shift thing has me scratching my head. If you correct the back focusing at the widest aperture I would think that the depth of field gained with the smaller aperture would negate any shift. Though I suspect you could see that your gains may be more to the front/back and not symmetrical. I'm with Sam in that I would document your issue with some sample photos and send it to Nikon.

I realize this is a forest view of your problem, but I think there is something wrong with your new D800. It is a better high Rez camera it should present better looking pictures... Or at least without pixel peeping the same. The photos from my D800 were better than my D700. You shouldn't have to rationalize. What sized photo are you using to determine this a 2500 by 1600 pixel monitor? D800 should be better. I'd exchange it, I wouldn't over think it. But that is me. JD

I've now been out today with the 24-120 and taken some real shots, both handheld and on the tripod. Using the tripod with mup and cable they are blisteringly sharp. Handheld with a little thought they are pretty good.

I'm now thinking it is more of an issue with the 50 mm and the effects of focus stacking. I will probably end up biasing the AFtune to wider apertures

My current thoughts are that if you take the shots properly you will be rewarded. If you are sloppy the punishment will be harsh. This camera does demand technique, whereas the D600 was a real carefree pleasure to use.

I think when you view an image on the camera you are seeing a jpeg embedded in the raw. I understand that this applies the picture controls. I have now increased the sharpness and contrast and the images seem much better on the camera. If this isn't the case it must be a placebo effect!!

Geoffc said:

I've now been out today with the 24-120 and taken some real shots, both handheld and on the tripod. Using the tripod with mup and cable they are blisteringly sharp. Handheld with a little thought they are pretty good.

I'm now thinking it is more of an issue with the 50 mm and the effects of focus stacking. I will probably end up biasing the AFtune to wider apertures

My current thoughts are that if you take the shots properly you will be rewarded. If you are sloppy the punishment will be harsh. This camera does demand technique, whereas the D600 was a real carefree pleasure to use.

I think when you view an image on the camera you are seeing a jpeg embedded in the raw. I understand that this applies the picture controls. I have now increased the sharpness and contrast and the images seem much better on the camera. If this isn't the case it must be a placebo effect!!

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I agree. The D800 takes no prisoners it very unforgiving - however used properly the results are stunning

I went from the D700 to D800,, and it took a few weeks until I consistantly produced sharp images, and I typically use single point focus point,, on the D800,, need to know exactly where the focus point is.

stmv said:

I went from the D700 to D800,, and it took a few weeks until I consistantly produced sharp images, and I typically use single point focus point,, on the D800,, need to know exactly where the focus point is.

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I went from the D80 to D800 and yes its a very steep learning curve.

It seems others have experienced a similar learning curve. I must admit I took all of the "you need good technique" hype as BS put around by people trying to bring some mystique to their expensive new toy. I don't suffer from shaky hands and I know the parameters that will make a good / bad picture, I just don't always apply them 100%.

Well in the case of the D800 I think the comments were largely true. I will say this only once, you will never see it in print again, I was at least partly in the wrong in all this I think the 50 mm still has some questions to answer.

If you go out and buy a D800, try it on a tripod first and make sure your focus has landed in the right place. If this results in good images the camera and lens is probably good to go, just make sure the tog is as well.

Nothing much to add with this discussion since first hand experience will often make you a believer.

My hand-holding technique is not steady at all but I supplement it with either flash, higher shuttter speed and/or higher ISO.

gqtuazon said:

Nothing much to add with this discussion since first hand experience will often make you a believer.

My hand-holding technique is not steady at all but I supplement it with either flash, higher shuttter speed and/or higher ISO.

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I take lots of shots especially when doing macro as the slightest movement back and forward can change the photo.

Generally, if you shoot the D800 like you did a D700 or D600 the photos will be sharper or as good at any normal viewing size ( 3 by 5 to 11 by 17", or 30" monitor or smaller ), however if you view at 100 % crop THEN you may / will see differences in you technique / lenses. The emphasis must be, if viewing as a photo ( not pixel peeping ) it will be great. Mine definitely look better as viewed as a photo. A huge number of folks have gotten confused about this and propagated this myth that you will get worse pictures with higher resolution given same lenses and technique. That only happens if you are comparing at high magnifications (crops). JD