Picture control and RAW Files

Mark F

Senior Member
I can't remember where I read this, but somewhere I ran across a statement saying that if you set the camera to Flat picture control you will be able to squeeze a little more DR out of your raw files. Anyone ever hear of this? I've always set my picture control for Vivid+5 sharpness and sometimes Standard.
 

480sparky

Senior Member
By definition, raw files do not have any picture controls (or any other setting, such as sharpness, saturation, contrast etc) applied to them.
 

Fred Kingston

Senior Member
Picture Control has no effect, as Sparky mentions, in RAW files. Nikon's software can read the picture control files, and apply it to the RAW files. If you use any other software besides Nikon's for RAW editing, the Pic Control settings are useless...
 

Mark F

Senior Member
Picture Control has no effect, as Sparky mentions, in RAW files. Nikon's software can read the picture control files, and apply it to the RAW files. If you use any other software besides Nikon's for RAW editing, the Pic Control settings are useless...

Thats what I thought but had to ask. I always use RAW/Jpeg in camera and convert the raw using DXO or Photoshop. I know people use Flat for video a lot, I just didn't know if any of these had a direct effect on the RAW file. Thanks.

Now I am wondering if what the article I read meant was to shoot Flat for a Jpeg where you can pull some detail out in PP maybe using Camera Raw?
Not that it matters, just curious. Sometimes I do take a Jpeg and open in Camera Raw just to see if I can change some things. It might only do what I was capable of doing in camera anyway.
 
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Texas

Senior Member
A further question, does turning on the lens correction affect RAW files ?

Just curious, I use DXO correction since it works with 3rd party lenses as well as Nikon's. Yes, I know I'm too lazy to run a test to answer my question.
 

Mark F

Senior Member
A further question, does turning on the lens correction affect RAW files ?

Just curious, I use DXO correction since it works with 3rd party lenses as well as Nikon's. Yes, I know I'm too lazy to run a test to answer my question.

Ive always had that option turned off in camera along with Hi ISO NR Since I am going to take the file to PP anyway, DXO does a good job of correction Plus corrects lenses that Nikon doesn't recognize. I've also heard that lens correction in camera can reduce quality a little bit (in Jpeg files)
From what I have understood... Lens correction doesn't affect the RAW file, only the JPEG
 
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480sparky

Senior Member
Ive always had that option turned off in camera along with Hi ISO NR Since I am going to take the file to PP anyway, DXO does a good job of correction Plus corrects lenses that Nikon doesn't recognize. I've also heard that lens correction in camera can reduce quality a little bit.

Same here. I turn all that stuff off because it slows down the frame rate. I can get a 23-frame burst of 14-bit raws if all that is turned off. With it on, I'm limited to 6 or 8.
 

Mark F

Senior Member
I found where I was reading this.. at Flat

[FONT=&quot]"With minimal artificial manipulation of color and brightness, Flat maintains a subject’s information as much as possible and faithfully reproduces it. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]As you can see in the graph, images or movies taken with Flat contain rich information extending from shadow to the medium brightness range. Also, from the medium to high brightness range, artificial processing is minimized and the subject’s information is maintained.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Therefore, Flat is optimal for capturing raw materials to be used for post-shooting adjustment.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Not only for still images but also for movies, this rich Flat data is very useful for post-production as raw material. You can achieve movie work that precisely matches your creative intention via comparatively simple post-shooting adjustment. To shoot such raw materials of still images or movies to be adjusted, the default setting of Flat is recommended.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Moreover, in addition to using it as a raw material, you can adopt Flat as one of the options of Picture Control to realize your creative expression, utilizing its characteristics to reproduce delicate gradation, color and texture naturally."

So, I guess my question now is, Is Flat picture control basically the default in RAW?
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
 

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
I found where I was reading this.. at Flat

"With minimal artificial manipulation of color and brightness, Flat maintains a subject’s information as much as possible and faithfully reproduces it.
As you can see in the graph, images or movies taken with Flat contain rich information extending from shadow to the medium brightness range. Also, from the medium to high brightness range, artificial processing is minimized and the subject’s information is maintained.
Therefore, Flat is optimal for capturing raw materials to be used for post-shooting adjustment.
]Not only for still images but also for movies, this rich Flat data is very useful for post-production as raw material. You can achieve movie work that precisely matches your creative intention via comparatively simple post-shooting adjustment. To shoot such raw materials of still images or movies to be adjusted, the default setting of Flat is recommended.
Moreover, in addition to using it as a raw material, you can adopt Flat as one of the options of Picture Control to realize your creative expression, utilizing its characteristics to reproduce delicate gradation, color and texture naturally."

So, I guess my question now is, Is Flat picture control basically the default in RAW?
Picture Controls, with one exception do not apply to raw files. The exception to the rule is if you are using Nikon software, such as Capture NX-D. If you are using Nikon's software, then Nikon Picture Profiles can be applied to the raw file as part of post-processing. If you are not using Nikon's software to post-process your raw files, Picture Profiles simply do not apply. Some third-party applications (such as Adobe Photoshop) do employ profiles which are similar to Picture Controls; they may even have the same names (such as Vivid or Portrait or Landscape for instance) but Nikon Picture Controls are, strictly speaking, proprietary to Nikon and only Nikon software can interpret and apply Nikon Picture Controls.

Sometimes using the Flat Picture Profile is suggested, however, even for those who shoot raw and I'm wondering if this might be what you're thinking of...

First, remember (or know) that raw files are NOT image files, they are digital DATA files. They require processing by specialized software (called a raw converter) to render an image file. So that we can review our shots, even if we're shooting raw, the camera embeds a tiny .JPG into each raw file automatically; and that little .JPG, embedded in the raw file, is the reason some people suggest using the Flat Picture Profile, even when shooting in raw. The reason is the histogram. The histograms the camera displays on the back of the camera is actually based on data from the .JPG embedded in the raw file, not the raw data (because raw files are not images, and .JPG's are). Using the Flat Picture Control does affects the embedded .JPG and that particular Picture Profile (Flat) is said to display histograms that are more aligned with the exposure of the raw file.

That was a very quick and dirty explanation for the sake of brevity and I understand it may be as clear as mud. I can clarify if you wish.
 
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nickt

Senior Member
I found where I was reading this.. at Flat

So, I guess my question now is, Is Flat picture control basically the default in RAW?

I think that article is speaking to the jpg audience who is planning to do some enhancements to the jpg file. It sounds like 'flat' leaves a good mid point to work with if you are using jpg.
Raw files are pretty flat, even 'bad looking' could describe them. I don't know if it would be exactly the same as the picture control 'flat'. This setting should not affect the raw file.
 

Mark F

Senior Member
Picture Controls, with one exception do not apply to raw files. The exception to the rule is if you are using Nikon software, such as Capture NX-D. If you are using Nikon's software, then Nikon Picture Profiles can be applied to the raw file as part of post-processing. If you are not using Nikon's software to post-process your raw files, Picture Profiles simply do not apply. Some third-party applications (such as Adobe Photoshop) do employ profiles which are similar to Picture Controls; they may even have the same names (such as Vivid or Portrait or Landscape for instance) but Nikon Picture Controls are, strictly speaking, proprietary to Nikon and only Nikon software can interpret and apply Nikon Picture Controls.

Sometimes using the Flat Picture Profile is suggested, however, even for those who shoot raw and I'm wondering if this might be what you're thinking of...

First, remember (or know) that raw files are NOT image files, they are digital DATA files. They require processing by specialized software (called a raw converter) to render an image file. So that we can review our shots, even if we're shooting raw, the camera embeds a tiny .JPG into each raw file automatically; and that little .JPG, embedded in the raw file, is the reason some people suggest using the Flat Picture Profile, even when shooting in raw. The reason is the histogram. The histograms the camera displays on the back of the camera is actually based on data from the .JPG embedded in the raw file, not the raw data (because raw files are not images, and .JPG's are). Using the Flat Picture Control does affects the embedded .JPG and that particular Picture Profile (Flat) is said to display histograms that are more aligned with the exposure of the raw file.

That was a very quick and dirty explanation for the sake of brevity and I understand it may be as clear as mud. I can clarify if you wish.

So, even if you step up sharpness contrast etc.. its only good for nikon software? Photoshop or DXO or lightroom doesn't see it? Or are we just talking RAW files and the Jpeg will reflect all the settings and picture controls
 
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Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
So, even if you step up sharpness contrast etc.. its only good for nikon software? Photoshop or DXO or lightroom doesn't see it?
If you are shooting raw, that is correct.

Settings related to Sharpness, Contrast, etc. are saved to your JPG's. Open one of those .JPG's in DxO, or Lightroom, and those adjustments will be visible.

If you are shooting in raw, and open a raw file in, say, DxO any such settings (Contrast, Sharpness, etc.) will not be applied or visible.
 

Mark F

Senior Member
If you are shooting raw, that is correct.

Settings related to Sharpness, Contrast, etc. are saved to your JPG's. Open one of those .JPG's in DxO, or Lightroom, and those adjustments will be visible.

If you are shooting in raw, and open a raw file in, say, DxO any such settings (Contrast, Sharpness, etc.) will not be applied or visible.

Got it... thanks.
 

RocketCowboy

Senior Member
Picture Control has no effect, as Sparky mentions, in RAW files. Nikon's software can read the picture control files, and apply it to the RAW files. If you use any other software besides Nikon's for RAW editing, the Pic Control settings are useless...

So yes, setting Picture Control has no effect on the RAW file, as everyone mentioned.

However ... it does affect the JPG preview that's embedded in the RAW file, and it's that preview image that's used for histograms on the camera ... as I under stand it. So the Picture Control profile will affect the histograms, and if you're using the histogram in the field to adjust your exposure, THAT can change your starting point for the RAW file. For that purpose alone, unless I'm needing the ability to quickly deliver JPG sooc before I can edit the RAW files, I'll set my Picture Control to flat.
 

Dawg Pics

Senior Member
That article paragraph keeps using the phrase "raw materials". I don't think that is meant to mean "RAW" NEF files. I think the author should have used some other turn of phrase to indicate what he/she was referring to. Maybe he/she was referring to a flat picture control having a less agressive affect on the original jpeg file than the other programs available. Therefore, you will have an easier time post processing since the file wasn't overly altered to begin with. So, more of the original 'raw' information is still there and unaffected or less affected by using the flat picture control.

That is my interpretation of what the author was talking about.
 

VicVideopIC

Senior Member
Thats what I thought but had to ask. I always use RAW/Jpeg in camera and convert the raw using DXO or Photoshop. I know people use Flat for video a lot, I just didn't know if any of these had a direct effect on the RAW file. Thanks.

Now I am wondering if what the article I read meant was to shoot Flat for a Jpeg where you can pull some detail out in PP maybe using Camera Raw?
Not that it matters, just curious. Sometimes I do take a Jpeg and open in Camera Raw just to see if I can change some things. It might only do what I was capable of doing in camera anyway.
I Mark,
you are correct: in video I use a very, very flat profile and try to nail my white balance in camera.
Video files are sadly always compressed and behave in a similar way as a JPEG file, so the possibilities in post production are limited.
While RAW files are a joy to post process
 
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