Advice Wanted to make sharper better quality photos/prints

todd7500

Senior Member
This is not about composition or the artistic side of what we do, it’s more seeking technical advice, but any and all suggestion would be GREATLY appreciated.

I have been trying without success to get wire sharp images/prints with proper contrast and color for quite a while. The images are sharp yet not wire sharp. I have to wrestle with Photoshop (Elements 14) and print multiple proofs to get the results I want and even then I am not getting the detail and crispness that I see in images by others.
Over time I have tried many things to correct this: Different versions of Photoshop (Elements) different monitors, my last attempt was a different camera (D7500) and lenses (Tamaron 70-200 and a Nikkor 35mm 1.8) and still only mediocre results.
I look at the work on this site and see every nuance of a bird’s feather or scale of a reptile or leaf of a tree and thought I might enlist your help in going step by step and seeing what I need to change.

I figure that there are several categories in the process: Getting it right in the camera, downloading and storage, viewing, post processing and printing.

Getting it right in the camera;
I have taken literally thousands of shots, until recently with my D80. Some are good but seldom as crisp as I wanted so I bought a D7500 and a couple of lenses with more or less the same results. On a recent trip with the D7500, I tried going back and concentrating on the basics: Increasing shutter speed to prevent camera shake, using smaller apertures to give me greater depth of field, even manual focus in some cases to keep the autofocus from taking control. I shot a lot of landscapes at a 200[SUP]th[/SUP] or faster and often used Manual Mode with Auto ISO to keep at f16 or above most of the time, occasionally swapping lenses just to see if I had a lens issue. I have tried all my lenses including the Nikkor 18-200 3.5 5.6 VR (my favorite walking around lens) and a Tokina 11-16 2.8 (a gorilla should get sharp pictures with that lens given the huge DOF). I use the lowest ISO I can get away with to keep noise down (ISO 100 whenever possible). I review the images and check the histogram afterwards. My thoughts are that those are about the ideal camera settings to get the sharpest results possible. They look pretty good in the viewscreen but are disappointing later on my PC. So let’s assume just for a second that I am getting it right in the camera. I make that assumption based on hundreds of images. You would think that I would get lucky once in a while and have one that was crisp. So my issues may be in the way I am handling or reproducing the files.

Downloading:
I use a good quality SD card and format it between shoots. I use a cord (Nikon, supplied with camera) to link the camera to my PC (laptop when traveling) I use Windows File Explorer to copy the files from the camera to my PC or a thumb drive to get them from my laptop to my PC, both are running a current version of Windows 10. In other words, I handle them like any other type of file, or document. The monitors for my PC are nothing special, just cheap HD (1080 x 1920). I also have UHD, 54” OLEG TV that I can plug a thumb drive into to share pictures with others. I was excited to look at images on the UHD screen but they were not the breathtaking sharpness and color I expected. BTW none of the monitors have been calibrated, I am not sure if they even can be. I don’t understand how it could be a monitor issue because on the same displays, other people’s images are sharp.

So I will stop here for now as I have probably lost everyone’s attention. Depending on what kind of suggestions I get (hopefully a lot), we will see what the next step to correct this.

I have not posted any images on this site yet because I am reluctant to show junk. I have reviewed the posts about getting the EXIF properly included and will post anything you all want to see in an effort to improve my image quality.

Thanks in advance.
Todd

By the way… I am pretty thick skinned so fire away!
 

lokatz

Senior Member
Hi Todd, Several thoughts come to mind here. Given that you consider yourself thick skinned, however, my first recommendation would be to post 2 or three of your shots you consider reasonably sharp but still disappointing. Doing so will help others understand what you are looking at and reduce the risk of us shooting in the dark.
 

RocketCowboy

Senior Member
Hi Todd, Several thoughts come to mind here. Given that you consider yourself thick skinned, however, my first recommendation would be to post 2 or three of your shots you consider reasonably sharp but still disappointing. Doing so will help others understand what you are looking at and reduce the risk of us shooting in the dark.

This. We really can only help theoretically without seeing an example of the problem you are trying to tackle. You may be over thinking things completely...or you may be on track. An example or two would provide some direct constructive feedback.


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nickt

Senior Member
I have not posted any images on this site yet because I am reluctant to show junk.

Show us your junk.:nightmare:

Are you shooting raw or jpg? If jpg, tweak up sharpness in the picture control settings in camera. Or for a quick check, just select 'vivid' and see if that is what you are looking for. If shooting raw, maybe you need some help processing. Great guys here for that. Not me, I'm getting better but not enough to teach. Post some shots up, it sounds like you have all the basics and maybe your photos just need some 'pop'.
 

gustafson

Senior Member
As others have remarked, a sample or two of your pics, and maybe a sample or two of what you consider sharp and contrasty pics, would help us give you more relevant input. Seems like you are doing all the right things, at least from a sharpness perspective.

It would be helpful if you report what your in-camera settings are for picture control, noise reduction, etc., and as has been asked, whether your workflow uses RAW or jpg.

As for feather detail, in particular, my experience is one needs to get as close as possible to the subject, AND use adequately long focal lengths (400mm +). Even then, it can be hit or miss.

Looking forward to some images so we can help you troubleshoot the issue!




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hark

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
Contributor
I don't have Photoshop Elements 14 so I don't know what printing options it offers. But here is a comparison of printing options between Photoshop Elements 10 and PCC.

This is the dialogue box I see in Photoshop Elements 10. There aren't any options for managing color. I choose my printer, set my size, and that's about it. The bottom line is in PSE 10, the printer manages the colors (the second photo should explain what that means).

Photoshop Elements 10 printing.jpg


Below shows you how there are many more options for adjustments when printing in PCC. I have the same Printer Setup options in PCC that I had in PSE 10 (the first dialogue box below).

The second box shows you there are a couple of options for Color Management that PSE 10 lacks. One is the printer can manage color (as I mentioned above that is the only option for PSE 10 above). But I have it set for Photoshop managing the color (first red arrow).

The second red arrow shows which printer profile I want to use. There are many from which to choose. This is the profile that goes along with my calibrated monitor; however, there are times when I will choose a different profile. The reason is I can see the changes being applied to my image as I toggle through the various printer profiles.

The third arrow (rendering intent) also changes things such as shadows, etc in the image. There are 4 from which to choose. Anyway, there are many more options to customize your printing when using PCC that may not be available to you in PSE 14. Again...since I don't have that specific version, I don't know exactly what options are there for you.

Sharpening would be applied directly to the image although different amounts of contrast may give the appearance of a sharper image. And sometimes the variety of printing options in PCC will make it seem like some settings will yield a sharper image than other settings.

PCC printing.jpg
 

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
Without seeing some example shots that you're not happy with, we'd be guessing as to possible solutions so posting a few would be helpful in troubleshooting the issue.

One of the most important factors in getting consistently sharp photos is the relationship between the shutter speed and the focal length. On a DX body I like to keep the shutter speed at twice the focal length. For instance, if shooting at 100mm that would mean keeping the shutter speed at, or above, 1/200th of a second. On a full-frame body I like to keep the shutter speed slightly above the focal length at a bare minimum and one-and-a-half times the focal length is even better. This assumes the subject is perfectly still; if there is motion of the subject involved even higher shutter speeds will be required to get crisp "stop action" shots. Of course a little motion blur can be a wonderful thing so it depends on the type of shot you're looking for, but it doesn't sound like this is your issue.

Another factor is knowing when to use Vibration Reduction/Optical Stabilization/et al. and when NOT to use it. VR is not a "set it, and forget it" sort of thing; it's a specific tool to be used when needed and only when needed. Used improperly VR can cause as many problems as it solves.

Front/Back Focus can rob your images of some degree of sharpness. It can be a pain in the butt to take the time to check lenses for front/back focus issues but I do it and I think it's a worthwhile investment of my time. I shelled out some serious money for some of my glass so I want to be confident I'm getting everything I can out of my lenses.

If you primarily shoot in JPG, and really even if you don't, you should adjust the "Sharpness" setting in the Picture Control menus. I adjusted that setting even though I very, very rarely shoot in JPG just because it is a "set it and forget" sort of thing.

You might want to try using Quiet Shutter mode, if your camera body supports it.

When it comes to post-processing I'll just say there is no Sharpening tool that will let you sharpen your way out of what is an inherently soft image/blurry shot. Sharpening in post' is a final step that gives an already good shot the last little bit of polish it needs to make it pop. Trying to polish a turd, on the other hand, is an exercise in frustration.
 
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todd7500

Senior Member
First attempt at uploading to this site. Hope the file info comes with it.

For the record... I always shoot JPEG Fine AND Raw
I have not tweaked the in camera settings (factory default)
Yes, I could be overthinking this, It seems that my OCD has been outed by you people already.

Zion, Sharp, but I worked on it alot in post. Look at the rock faces. Thats what I feel is "sharp"
Vermilion, Sharp (sort of) again the rock faces in the background, again I worked on it in PSE, added contrast, jacked up the levels etc. Foreground not sharp (DOF issue)
Rails, disappointing focus seems soft to me
Aspens, disappointing focus seems soft even after working on it.
Coos Bay, A little soft considering it was shot at a 125th at 22 racked out to 22mm?
If the file info doesn't come with them I will look into a fix

Aspens 1000 long side.jpg Zion 1000 long side.jpg Rails 1000 long side .jpg Coos Bay 1000 long side.jpg Vermillion 1000 long side copy.jpg

Sorry in advance if I use to much space or didn't get the file info.
 

Texas

Senior Member
...and F/16 or more will bring in diffraction on most all lenses

for jpg sharpness in Nikons most folks use at least a +6 in-camera sharpening

to my eyes on the computer monitor, these look good

maybe you could upload a problem full size photo to a shared dropbox folder for a close look
 
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gustafson

Senior Member
Thanks for the images - a couple of thoughts come to mind:

- The images all look fine on my phone screen, but a bit soft on my monitor (could be the matte screen). I noticed the majority were on the D80, which might explain why they may not hold up well to pixel-peeping compared to images from newer, higher res sensors. However, when viewed on a monitor or a print from a reasonable distance (for the size of the monitor or said print), they should mostly hold up OK.

- Also noticed that the majority of the shots were at wide focal lengths. Some time ago, I posted here about my struggles with manual focusing with wideangles, and was schooled on the concept of hyperfocal distance, which was very helpful in addressing the issue. One of the suggestions was to set the aperture to f/8 or f/11 and focus 1/3 of the way into the scene. This worked really well for me. Here is the post: https://nikonites.com/general-lense...ses.html?highlight=gustafson+24#axzz4wXuEnEIk

Hope this helps!
 

Bikerbrent

Senior Member
Your shots look pretty decent however, they seem to all be clustered around either maximum or minimum aperture. This is not normally the sharpest possible picture with a lens. Try some pictures at F8 and F11 and see if you don't like them better.
 
A couple of guides to help with a few things that people are discussing. If you use the JPG version of the photo here is a guide to help you set the sharpness in the camera. This will not affect the RAW version of the photo.


If you are shooting JPG I would suggest that you use the Fine>>Large setting and also set your camera for better sharpness.



Go into your Menus and highlight the "Shooting" menu (the camera icon)

Drop down to "Picture Controls" and click right one time.

From here, highlight "Standard" and then click right one time.

From this settings menu, increase the "Sharpness" setting to "7".

Drop down and increase the "Saturation" setting +1 notch on the slider.

Press "OK" to exit the menus and you're done.



 
To set the fine tuning of the lenses. This is something that you really need to do

Back Button Focus is a great tool for so many photographers and is something I think everyone should try at least once. Below are a few sites that talk about the how and why of Back Button Focus.

Benefits of Using the AF-ON Button for Autofocus by Nikon USA


BACK BUTTON FOCUSING – EASIER THAN YOU THINK! by Improve Photography


Here is a good YouTube video that goes over the why and how of Back Button Focusing.

You can do a search of the forum on "Back Button Focus" or BBF and see the many threads that have been created on this subject.

Try it, You will like it.


I use a computer based program to set my fine tuning on my D7100 and D750

https://www.reikanfocal.com/focal-pro.html


 

todd7500

Senior Member
WOW!
I want to say thanks so much to all who have taken the time to reply to this thread so far. There is a ton of information here for me to go through. Seems like I am close to getting it correct in the camera but there are a bunch of tweaked suggested, that I will use.
Once I get that sorted a bit better I can start nailing down the printing process. Hark already started me down that road. I have been dealing with this issue (image and print quality) for a long time without getting satisfaction. Again my OCD. This is how I ended up finding this forum to begin with. So where does someone go for help? There are no "camera clubs" to speak of near me. I went to one a few times but it wasn't for me. More about who had the biggest lens and who was going on the trip to China. My experiences so far with Nikonites is that you actually HAVE experience and know how to understand what someone else is trying to accomplish
Thanks again!
 

nickt

Senior Member
I'll suggest to practice with your lenses. You might find some surprises, good and bad. Find a distant sign or even a house. For closer shots, set up some soda cans (or anything with print or pattern). See what your best handheld speed is for consistent crispness. For me it is usually at least 2x focal length. See what VR does for you. Then go through your apertures, find your sharpest and your softest apertures. Also go through your zoom range to find soft and sharp areas. There are websites that have this info, but its a good experience to see for yourself.
https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx

For example, when I use my Sigma 150-600, I shoot in manual at 1/1250 shutter and f8 to get my sharpest shots. I use auto iso so the exposure will be good without too much thinking. If the iso is just too much, I'll make some compromises on shutter and aperture.
 

hark

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
Contributor
I've given a little more thought to this and have a couple more suggestions. Is your monitor calibrated? I use a Spyder Pro device, but there are other devices members use that supposedly also give good results. A calibrated monitor is more accurate when displaying images.

Another thing that might affect what you are seeing is the type of monitor you are using. If you angle your monitor up or down and the contrast changes, then most likely your monitor isn't an IPS monitor. And if that's the case, whenever you decide to upgrade to a new monitor, you might want to consider an IPS one instead. The contrast will remain the same if you alter the angle of the display with an IPS monitor. You mentioned having trouble reproducing accurate contrast so it *might* be one of the culprits if yours isn't an IPS monitor.

What you can do though is to try and adjust the angle of your monitor to match the contrast in your prints--or at least get it as close as possible. It will be far easier to move your monitor to match the contrast in your prints than it will be to try and edit your photos while adjusting the contrast in your images (you'll go through a lot of test prints doing it that way).

When you edit, and if you are using only one layer, you might want to edit your photo so it looks good on your monitor. Then duplicate that layer and make any adjustments (shadow, contrast, etc) only on the new layer when making test prints. If your monitor isn't yet calibrated but you decide to do that in the future, it will allow you to see what the image looked like with an uncalibrated monitor when you thought it looked good.

Earlier I mentioned one of the differences between Photoshop CC (how it allows Photoshop to manage the colors when printing) vs Photoshop Elements (how the printer has to manage the colors when printing). I'm not sure how your version of Elements works, but this is what I see in Elements 10 if I want to switch some of the printer settings. Personally I DON"T recommend doing it this way unless you have better options that allow you to preview your image WHILE you are making the changes. I'm giving you this info just so you know it is an option.

1. Making adjustments through the printer settings ISN'T user friendly at all in PSE 10. Not sure if it's the same in PSE 14, but you can always look. If I want to make adjustments this way, I have to click on the Change Settings (under Printer Settings) then click on Advanced Settings like is shown below.

PSE printing options 1.jpg


2. Once the following dialogue box opens up, I want to click the option to Preview Before Printing (which won't allow you to see any changes made until immediately before the file prints). Under the section labeled Color Intensity, you want to switch it from Auto to Manual (if your version is the same or similar to mine), and click on Set.

PSE printing options 2.jpg


3. The following dialogue box opens. Sample Type (Standard, Portrait, Landscape, and Graphics) should alter some of the contrast when you toggle between them. The problem is you can't yet preview what the file will look like.

PSE printing options 3.jpg


4. Off to the right you can make specific adjustments to the Brightness, Intensity, and Contrast. But since you can't yet preview those changes, you won't have any idea what they will look like.

PSE printing options 4.jpg


5. If you clicked the Preview Before Printing box earlier, then this window pops up when you click on Print. This is the only place you will see those changes to your image. I can either display the entire image or zoom in using one of the options shown below. Ultimately, it would be a HUGE pain to do it this way, but it is an option. The way the full version of Photoshop is set it is FAR more user friendly. When I toggle through the full version of Photoshop's options, the changes are made to the image right before my eyes.

You should look into this dialogue box to see if Photoshop Elements 14 made any user-friendly changes to the printer options. Hopefully you can make changes that are visible while you are doing them like the full version of Photoshop offers.

PSE printing options 5.jpg
 

todd7500

Senior Member
I've given a little more thought to this and have a couple more suggestions. Is your monitor calibrated? I use a Spyder Pro device, but there are other devices members use that supposedly also give good results. A calibrated monitor is more accurate when displaying images.


You should look into this dialogue box to see if Photoshop Elements 14 made any user-friendly changes to the printer options. Hopefully you can make changes that are visible while you are doing them like the full version of Photoshop offers.

Thanks again Hark (and everyone else)

No I have not calibrated my monitors yet, looks like thats my first step to get a baseline on things. So I will look at the Spyders and get started on that. As far as them being IPS, the LT definitely isn't and my desktops most likely are not. They have a nice picture and good viewing angles but are just Wal-Mart brand HD "Element" TVs

Step by step I am trying to duplicate every screenshot. I can do it however I still have some issues. There is (perhaps) a small improvement in the print, but I still dont think I am in control. I will attempt screenshots later to better describe. As an experiment, in the Manual Color Adjustment window, I jacked up the sliders to right (max) as far as they go. Still no drastic changes in the print, thus my questioning what profile the printer is seeing and who is in control PSE or Canon.

I an determined to get this resolved and get good prints so I am prepared to invest where its needed, but before I throw money at the problem, I need to know what is working best for other Nikonites. Once that settled, I can "mimic" the gear.

I have been contemplating upgrading to the full version of PS. May I ask what version you are using?

It looks like you are using a Canon 7100 series printer. Are you happy with the prints you get?

I have a Canon Pixma MG7220 and a Canon iX6820 that prints up to 13 x 19. I like the 13 x 19 format for prints so ultimately, when I get all this sorted out I will invest in a GOOD printer that allows 13x16 or larger format printing.

I am open to suggestions from all on printers. Canon? Epson? models that you are using would be good to know, so that I can duplicate your settings and hopefully results. $1000.00 is about my max price range for a printer but...

Thanks!
 

hark

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
Contributor
I have a Canon Pixma MG7220 and a Canon iX6820 that prints up to 13 x 19. I like the 13 x 19 format for prints so ultimately, when I get all this sorted out I will invest in a GOOD printer that allows 13x16 or larger format printing.

I am open to suggestions from all on printers. Canon? Epson? models that you are using would be good to know, so that I can duplicate your settings and hopefully results. $1000.00 is about my max price range for a printer but...

Thanks!

I have both a Canon MG7120 (which shows up as the 7100 in my printer properties) and a Canon PRO 100. The 7120 is just so-so. It's okay for printing but not as good as my previous Canon all-in-one printer.

BUT B&H is having an incredible sale on the Canon PRO 100. After the rebate, the final price is MUCH less than it was when B&H had it on sale last year. After the rebate, this year's price is only $59.99. ::what:: There were a few Nikonites who bought it last year, too. And that's such a good price that I am going to start a new thread for it. ;)

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/893738-REG/Canon_6228b002_Pixma_Pro_100_Photo_Inkjet.html

Canon Printer sale.jpg
 

todd7500

Senior Member
Thanks,
Just ordered the Pro-100 and an extra 10 pack of paper.
I have a backstock of Canon Photo Paper Plus Glossy II,
What are you using Glossy or Luster?
Guess its time to upgrade my PS. Whats your suggestion PS and LRCC subscription?
Should be here Friday.
Perhaps if you do start a thread on the topic, it will stir up some how to's
 
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