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  1. #11
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    Don Kuykendall's Avatar

    Re: PP help needed for noisy photo

    Quote Originally Posted by hark View Post
    I'm just looking for a quick explanation, Don, but I hope I don't derail this thread.

    I don't shoot with Auto-ISO; however, with the ERR messages I am getting with my D750, I'm open to give it a try. So if I understand correctly, you are in Manual Mode (not Aperture or Shutter Priority)? You set your shutter speed and aperture manually, then the camera will set the ISO in between two values that you've chosen ahead of time? And when you use the +/- button, it will work in Manual mode when it usually doesn't? Is all of this correct?
    Yes it is. In my opinion it is an elegant way to shoot. I want a certain shutter speed and at certain f stop that works for BIF With this kind of shooting the conditions can change between when you acquire the bird and when the bird goes out of range. You can't be fooling with buttons and settings during that time. It works for me anyway. I set the ISO at minimum 100 or 50 all the time and the maximum at 3200 most of the time. Sometimes it does have to be cranked up depending on the day.


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  2. #12
    Senior Member
    hark's Avatar

    Re: PP help needed for noisy photo

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Kuykendall View Post
    Yes it is. In my opinion it is an elegant way to shoot. I want a certain shutter speed and at certain f stop that works for BIF With this kind of shooting the conditions can change between when you acquire the bird and when the bird goes out of range. You can't be fooling with buttons and settings during that time. It works for me anyway. I set the ISO at minimum 100 or 50 all the time and the maximum at 3200 most of the time. Sometimes it does have to be cranked up depending on the day.
    Thanks, Don. I will definitely give Auto-ISO a try. When I'm in Aperture Priority, that's when I get the ERR with the very first shot. When I'm in Manual Mode, it hasn't happened. Auto-ISO sounds like changes could be made a little faster since I'd still be able to use the +/- button (which I LOVE when I'm in Aperture Priority). Thanks again.

    Now back to the regularly scheduled programming of @gustafson 's thread PP help needed for noisy photo.
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  3. #13
    Staff
    Super Mod
    Don Kuykendall's Avatar

    Re: PP help needed for noisy photo

    Quote Originally Posted by hark View Post

    Now back to the regularly scheduled programming of @gustafson 's thread PP help needed for noisy photo.

    I think this is on point for this thread. shooting BIF is challenging and getting it close in the very beginning is key.
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  4. #14
    Senior Member
    Horoscope Fish's Avatar

    Re: PP help needed for noisy photo

    Quote Originally Posted by hark View Post
    Thanks, Don. I will definitely give Auto-ISO a try. When I'm in Aperture Priority, that's when I get the ERR with the very first shot. When I'm in Manual Mode, it hasn't happened. Auto-ISO sounds like changes could be made a little faster since I'd still be able to use the +/- button (which I LOVE when I'm in Aperture Priority). Thanks again.

    Now back to the regularly scheduled programming of @gustafson 's thread PP help needed for noisy photo.
    Sorry to barge in but I wanted to chime in on Don's post. Not only is using Auto-ISO in full Manual an "elegant" shooting method, to borrow Don's word, it's also, in my mind anyway, infinitely practical. If you'll permit me I will expound.

    So... The Exposure Triangle: Shutter Speed, Aperture, ISO. Of these three things I concern myself the *least* with ISO; not that I disregard it totally, mind you, but really what's the big deal between say ISO 100 vs ISO 400 in the practical sense? What other option allows me FOUR full stops of adjustment without blowing the shot? Dropping down four stops of shutter speed? Doubtful. Opening up another four stops of aperture? Possible I suppose but it doesn't seem likely. Either of these options might work but it's certainly going to change the aesthetic of my shot and most likely, quite dramatically.

    Okay, so yes; the eventual downside to cranking up the ISO is noise so maybe in some situations letting it go too high less than ideal but... Consider the alternatives: 1. Drop the shutter speed... Which could easily result in a blurry shot. 2. Open the aperture... Which results in a shallow DoF... Which could easily lead to a blurry shot. Are the results of either Option 1 or Option 2 recoverable in post-processing? Not so much; you can't Photoshop your way out of a blurry shot, as you already know. But digital noise we at least have tools to deal with, pretty good ones actually (e.g. Dfine from NIK). To my way of thinking the only "Negative Leg" of the Exposure Triangle I can recover from in post is the noise produced by too high an ISO. Typically it also has the least overall impact on the aesthetic of my shot.

    As always, your mileage may vary.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member
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    Blacktop's Avatar

    Re: PP help needed for noisy photo

    PP help needed for noisy photo
    Quote Originally Posted by Horoscope Fish View Post
    Sorry to barge in but I wanted to chime in on Don's post. Not only is using Auto-ISO in full Manual an "elegant" shooting method, to borrow Don's word, it's also, in my mind anyway, infinitely practical. If you'll permit me I will expound.

    So... The Exposure Triangle: Shutter Speed, Aperture, ISO. Of these three things I concern myself the *least* with ISO; not that I disregard it totally, mind you, but really what's the big deal between say ISO 100 vs ISO 400 in the practical sense? What other option allows me FOUR full stops of adjustment without blowing the shot? Dropping down four stops of shutter speed? Doubtful. Opening up another four stops of aperture? Possible I suppose but it doesn't seem likely. Either of these options might work but it's certainly going to change the aesthetic of my shot and most likely, quite dramatically.

    Okay, so yes; the eventual downside to cranking up the ISO is noise so maybe in some situations letting it go too high less than ideal but... Consider the alternatives: 1. Drop the shutter speed... Which could easily result in a blurry shot. 2. Open the aperture... Which results in a shallow DoF... Which could easily lead to a blurry shot. Are the results of either Option 1 or Option 2 recoverable in post-processing? Not so much; you can't Photoshop your way out of a blurry shot, as you already know. But digital noise we at least have tools to deal with, pretty good ones actually (e.g. Dfine from NIK). To my way of thinking the only "Negative Leg" of the Exposure Triangle I can recover from in post is the noise produced by too high an ISO. Typically it also has the least overall impact on the aesthetic of my shot.

    As always, your mileage may vary.
    If I may make comment on #2 Most BIF shots are not close enough for that to matter. I shoot most of my BIF shots in f/5.6 because that is the maximum aperture of my lens. If I had a 500mm f/4, I would still be shooting it at maximum.
    However there are a few times when I get to shoot close in and I wish I would have stopped down the aperture, but those times are pretty rare.

    Another reason I like to shoot wide open these type of shots, it's because I prefer a smooth background. For me, there is nothing that ruins a nice BIF shot then a busy looking background.

    If I may indulge. This shot here was taken pretty close up. I could have stopped down to get all the bird in focus, but I don't want to trade that for a background that is distracting to my eye..

    PP help needed for noisy photo-_dsc4077-edit.jpg

    I could also have moved back some like in this next shot. Both at f/5.6, but with this second shot I have a lot more areas in focus on the bird and still getting a smooth background.

    PP help needed for noisy photo-_dsc4050-edit.jpg

    I know this doesn't have much to do with the OP's original post, but I thought it might help him in his shooting if he ever comes across this situation.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member

    Re: PP help needed for noisy photo

    I often shoot manual and auto iso. I don't bother to cap the iso, I'll take the grainy shot if that's all I can get. I programmed my pv and fn buttons on the camera front to center weighted and spot metering so I can instantly use them and not worry about forgetting to go back to matrix metering.
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    Best Answers aporodagon voted best answer for this post
     
    I must have a really good camera.

  7. #17
    Senior Member

    Re: PP help needed for noisy photo

    PP help needed for noisy photo
    PP help needed for noisy photo-dsc_7145.jpg

    Best I could get. I had to trick Photoshop to work on your NEF file. PS kept saying "wrong file type", but I was able to see the pic in Bridge, then open in Camera Raw, then to PS.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member

    Re: PP help needed for noisy photo

    PP help needed for noisy photo
    Quote Originally Posted by Blade Canyon View Post
    PP help needed for noisy photo-dsc_7145.jpg

    Best I could get. I had to trick Photoshop to work on your NEF file. PS kept saying "wrong file type", but I was able to see the pic in Bridge, then open in Camera Raw, then to PS.
    Nice work! That's close to the contrast I was going for between the body and the wings, but was unable to achieve it. Do you recall what edits you made?
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  9. #19
    Senior Member

    Re: PP help needed for noisy photo

    I don't remember exactly right now, but in Camera Raw it was probably just moving the exposure, contrast, highlights, shadows, white, and black sliders. Noise reduction was a Nik Collection (free!) tool.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member

    Re: PP help needed for noisy photo

    PP help needed for noisy photo
    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    Do you recall what edits you made?
    Sorry, I forgot that the edits I made would be saved in ACR if I simply reopened the RAW file. This is before the noise reduction in PS.

    PP help needed for noisy photo-screenshot.jpg
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