Nik Dfine 2 vs Topaz Denoise 5

Moab Man

Senior Member
@wornish @mikew

A previous thread on Noise Reduction brought up the question of different aftermarket noise clean up tools: Nik Tools Dfine and Topaz Denoise. Having both I decided to give it a try head-to-head and see the results.

First set straight out of the camera - D7100, Tamron 90mm with no UV filter in front of the glass. Camera was tripod mounted and the seedling shot is one of those twirly birds off of a maple tree held by a pincher clamp.

Because some things get lost from raw to jpeg to a smaller jpeg uploaded I will narrate some of my observations.

Top and middle image the ISO noise softened the fine detail versus the last image being properly exposed. Shadows were equally default lightened to bring out the noise.

Originals.jpg
 
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Moab Man

Senior Member
This next set was noise reduced using Nik Tools Dfine 2.

Observations: The Nik Tools clearly cleaned up the noise the best in the shadow areas - NO COMPARISON. However, it also softened the image the most - NO COMPARISON here either.

Dfine2.jpg
 

Moab Man

Senior Member
Topaz Denoise 5

Denoise offers many variances in the level of noise reduction and whether it is a jpeg or raw file. Nik tools is pretty narrow and what you get is what you get kind of sums it up. Not knowing what would be the best comparison to Nik I started out the Topaz Denoise at Raw Moderate noise clean up.

Observation: Denoise didn't do a lot to clean up in the shadow area noise. It was really hard at 100% to see what it was doing. However, and this really threw me, it sharpened the actual seed vein area.

NoiseRawModerate.jpg
 
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Moab Man

Senior Member
Finally, one more round with Topaz.

Because the Raw Moderate adjustment didn't seem to do much to the shadow ISO noise I decided to go one more time, but use the strongest noise reduction - RAW Strongest.

Observation: Again, the shadow clean was not real evident, but better than the RAW Moderate setting. Again the seed vein area was sharpened up.

NoiseRawStrongest.jpg
 

Moab Man

Senior Member
Conclusion...

For cleaning up the bokeh area, shadows, and further softening the bokeh area the Nik Tools Dfine 2 is the perfect tool.

Cleaning up the noise in the actual focused area as well as sharpening it up a bit, the Topaz Denoise is perfect. BUT it falls substantially short in cleaning up shadow area noise.

The hybrid solution... If I really needed to pull the absolute best out of an image and clean up the noise my solution would be a combination of Nik, Topaz, and layer masks. I would use Topaz to clean up noise in the main image that's NOT shadowed. I would then use Nik to clean up shadow areas. All the while using mask layers to show/blend the Topaz with the Nik areas.

I personally use Dfine all the time and am a big believer. But there are a couple "flaws" with this evaluation. Yes, the Nik Tools Dfine did wipe out a lot of fine detail, but I have virtually never printed an image at 100%. Without being displayed at 100% the loss of detail would not be so evident. The other issue I have with my test is how I actually use Dfine. When I am cleaning up noise I more often than not am using a mask on the areas I want in focus. The Dfine often improves the bokeh and leaving the fine bit of noise in the image can help to give the image a sharper image to the eye when the background bokeh is even softer.
 
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Krs_2007

Senior Member
Look at the colors of the leaves between topaz and NiK. Nik the colors are lighter which affects the leaf veins and could affect the sharpening.

No clue why or how to work around it, but they definitely are different in how the noise is cleaned up.

I wonder if you could brink the blacks up in the nik pictures to bring the darker tones back a bit if it would help the sharpening. Just a thought, and I have a new one every second.


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Moab Man

Senior Member
The brightness in the Nik image had to do with needing a flash to get a properly expose ISO 100. Unfortunately it was a something I just had to do with the hour at which I could shoot.

However, I do agree that simply having more light will capture more detail and that the noise will soften the image even if I properly exposed using a longer duration.

Admittedly, there are a few flaws to the test, but I still think it's valid in showing how each effects the image.
 

Krs_2007

Senior Member
I agree, was just wondering if it's worth having two noise apps. I usually use LR for the bulk but will shift it over to define if I only have a few to process.

You do have me wondering about topaz now.

Thanks for doing this, I have to reply on noise cleanup pretty heavily for most of sports shots. But like I said it can be handled via LR and adjusting the sharpening mask in LR for the area I want sharpened.


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Moab Man

Senior Member
@Krs_2007

Let's see what Luminance does for clean up.

Using the same starting images, I pushed the Luminance slider up and up to try and chase away the noise in the dark area. The main area really softened and it did not do so well at this level of clean-up in the shadow area.

Kevin, when I edited my wrestling images I used a combination of the luminance slider to do an overall clean up of the noise, but the environment did not create this kind of heavy shading/noise even though I used the same ISO of 3200. My combination was luminence for overall clean up followed my Nik Tools Dfine, and then masked the wrestlers out from the effect of Dfine.

IF I absolutely need to have the BEST I can edit where nothing can be sacrifice the image would be worked with Luminance, Dfine, and Denoise. However, to my original point, It's only been two handfuls of times that I have ever printed at 100%.

LuminanceSlider.jpg
 
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WhiteLight

Senior Member
Thanks for the comparison shots George.
I concur with what you see.. i have tried this experiment in the past with the same tools and Nik definitely works in a superior fashion thank Topaz.
Dunno if am biased, but overall nik tools is a 'better' package.. for me at the least
 

Krs_2007

Senior Member
@Krs_2007

Let's see what Luminance does for clean up.

Using the same starting images, I pushed the Luminance slider up and up to try and chase away the noise in the dark area. The main area really softened and it did not do so well at this level of clean-up in the shadow area.

Kevin, when I edited my wrestling images I used a combination of the luminance slider to do an overall clean up of the noise, but the environment did not create this kind of heavy shading/noise even though I used the same ISO of 3200. My combination was luminence for overall clean up followed my Nik Tools Dfine, and then masked the wrestlers out from the effect of Dfine.

IF I absolutely need to have the BEST I can edit where nothing can be sacrifice the image would be worked with Luminance, Dfine, and Denoise. However, to my original point, It's only been two handfuls of times that I have ever printed at 100%.


Great Thanks for the comparison. If I really want to be picky about it then I will use Define, but like stated for the most if I use LR and adjust the sharpening using the mask then I get pretty good results. Your picture was a little more extreme compared to what I usually start with. So good to see it compared to the other 2 and you really only see it when you pixel peep. I used this same approach for a project for the Senior wrestlers, which is a composite and printed it at 16x20 and they look pretty good. The wife and son and all that have looked at them love them, but as a photographer we can always find fault with something in them. Haven't printed this big with something like these composites with 8 layers and very impressed even up close. The technology is very amazing from the camera to the pc to the output, so it really helps knowing the limitations of your equipment/software.

Thanks a bunch George for taking the time to add the 3 test.
 

Moab Man

Senior Member
You're welcome Kevin. And yeah, my test was the extreme of noise combined with pixel peeping which I don't see myself actually trying to shoot under these conditions or in that close. I got benefit out of it as well because now I definitively know what each will do.
 
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