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  1. #21
    Senior Member
    spb_stan's Avatar

    Re: Talk me out of switching to Sony.

    There are many reasons to avoid Sony. Sure they are pushed heavily by YouTube gurus who are generally not photographers but social media personalities.
    Starting with build. Sony's are built to price point with the widest margins in the industry, and the a7xxx series is no exapection with the least weather sealing of any current brand, in fact none. Their materials and build cheapens out because they only have to deal with them during their warranty period. After that, it becomes a throwaway item. Users update them every 14 months or so on their product cycle because once the model is dropped from production parts and service becomes almost nonexistent. This is an important part of the sales strategy, forcing people to buy the newest model on short product cycles. That is a corporate policy for all products from hi-fis to robots. I was burned by them years ago when my 18 month old digital tape deck which cost me $124,000 became unsupportable when they introduced a new model so dropped parts availability for the old one that was only introduced 20 months before. Try getting a 5 year old Sony camera repaired. It can't be done. Which brings up a related problem with being married to Sony update cycle, availability of service even in warranty is known throughout the industry as the very worst. With the very fragile lens flange and lack of weather sealing, when they die it is usually not covered under warranty anyway. Get stuck in a rain storm and buy a new camera, toss the current one in the trash. drop a camera with a lens on it, even on carpet, and the very weak thin brittle flange ring breaks and the camera is toast.

    Focus is the only feature that the gurus on YouTube push as if focusing is a problem for photographers. But they are quiet on the features that make a difference in images because most brands are better. For example what does the a73 do better than a Z6? Handling, build, weather resistance, speed, low light focusing, EVF, rear screen, touch control, connectivity, reliable card system(the XQD is reason enough for pros to prefer the Z cameras), video IQ, color science, image stabilization in stills or video mode, ergonomics, handling, support for years, access service centers, sharper corner to corner lower cost and weight lenses due to the largest flange and shortest flange distance in the industry, long term investment protection(Sony has changed mounts 3 times and will have to change it again to compete with Panasonic, Nikon and Canon which all have FF scaled flanges while the Sony cheapened out and used a tiny one so DX and FX could use the same Dx intended flange), color in JPGs, ease of control and menu that makes sense, and many other features that the Z6/7 has over the current Sony models.IF you use a camera outdoors, forget Sony unless you like buying replacing cameras often.
    For some taking more than just snap shots, any camera which does not have an XQD/CFExpress card system is asking for problems.
    Video on the Nikon is better in every way from focus tracking, IBIS, electronic stabilization and coming with a soon to be released firmware update, PRO Res Raw 12 bit video.
    But the Youtube gurus keep pushing Sony and cashing the checks. Personally, after shooting my friend's a7, a7II, and a7III, I am quite unimpressed with the worst handling camera on the market today. He had to replace 2 despite very few frames because of getting the a7 wet in a minor rain shower and he a7II was totalled when he knocked it off his coffee table and it was unrepairable. So he has over $7000 invested in bodies in 4 years and has only used the a dozen times or so, plus his lenses that will soon be orphaned when Sony changes mount again so they can sell everyone $10-20,000 in new lenses once again.
    Why do you need 61mpx, large prints do not need them because they constrained by the same lens resolving power and the Sony small flange assures soft corners no matter what.
    For IQ, all the cameras produced in the last 10 years exceed the printer and photographers skills. Any image hanging on walls of top galleries could have been shot with almost anything. But when visiting galleries that list shooting data you might want to take a look at what cameras were used. Not many were taken with Sony. In fact last year's International Press Photography awards in all categories 52% were taken with Nikon and less than 2% with Sony. That says nothing about image quality but a lot about what real pros rely on.
    If you want to stay with your current lenses and get the best DSLR ever made, get a D850. If you want mirrorless FF the two best bodies are Nikon and Panasonic S series. The S1 mirrorless but larger and pretty heavy but definitely pro build, and the Nikon Z are definitely high quality in materials, components and build. For corner to corner sharpness, the Z mount S lenses are not bettered by any brand despite being small, light and moderate cost. The 24-70 2.8 for example is the best zoom on the market. The lower cost 1.8 primes are stellar and all under $1000. The $700 85 1.8 S wild open is clearly superior to the Nikkor 85 1.4G and Sigma ART 85 1.4 which was the IQ champ before the lower cost Nikon S lenses.


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  2. #22
    Senior Member

    Re: Talk me out of switching to Sony.

    Quote Originally Posted by spb_stan View Post
    There are many reasons to avoid Sony. Sure they are pushed heavily by YouTube gurus who are generally not photographers but social media personalities.
    Starting with build. Sony's are built to price point with the widest margins in the industry, and the a7xxx series is no exapection with the least weather sealing of any current brand, in fact none. Their materials and build cheapens out because they only have to deal with them during their warranty period. After that, it becomes a throwaway item. Users update them every 14 months or so on their product cycle because once the model is dropped from production parts and service becomes almost nonexistent. This is an important part of the sales strategy, forcing people to buy the newest model on short product cycles. That is a corporate policy for all products from hi-fis to robots. I was burned by them years ago when my 18 month old digital tape deck which cost me $124,000 became unsupportable when they introduced a new model so dropped parts availability for the old one that was only introduced 20 months before. Try getting a 5 year old Sony camera repaired. It can't be done. Which brings up a related problem with being married to Sony update cycle, availability of service even in warranty is known throughout the industry as the very worst. With the very fragile lens flange and lack of weather sealing, when they die it is usually not covered under warranty anyway. Get stuck in a rain storm and buy a new camera, toss the current one in the trash. drop a camera with a lens on it, even on carpet, and the very weak thin brittle flange ring breaks and the camera is toast.

    Focus is the only feature that the gurus on YouTube push as if focusing is a problem for photographers. But they are quiet on the features that make a difference in images because most brands are better. For example what does the a73 do better than a Z6? Handling, build, weather resistance, speed, low light focusing, EVF, rear screen, touch control, connectivity, reliable card system(the XQD is reason enough for pros to prefer the Z cameras), video IQ, color science, image stabilization in stills or video mode, ergonomics, handling, support for years, access service centers, sharper corner to corner lower cost and weight lenses due to the largest flange and shortest flange distance in the industry, long term investment protection(Sony has changed mounts 3 times and will have to change it again to compete with Panasonic, Nikon and Canon which all have FF scaled flanges while the Sony cheapened out and used a tiny one so DX and FX could use the same Dx intended flange), color in JPGs, ease of control and menu that makes sense, and many other features that the Z6/7 has over the current Sony models.IF you use a camera outdoors, forget Sony unless you like buying replacing cameras often.
    For some taking more than just snap shots, any camera which does not have an XQD/CFExpress card system is asking for problems.
    Video on the Nikon is better in every way from focus tracking, IBIS, electronic stabilization and coming with a soon to be released firmware update, PRO Res Raw 12 bit video.
    But the Youtube gurus keep pushing Sony and cashing the checks. Personally, after shooting my friend's a7, a7II, and a7III, I am quite unimpressed with the worst handling camera on the market today. He had to replace 2 despite very few frames because of getting the a7 wet in a minor rain shower and he a7II was totalled when he knocked it off his coffee table and it was unrepairable. So he has over $7000 invested in bodies in 4 years and has only used the a dozen times or so, plus his lenses that will soon be orphaned when Sony changes mount again so they can sell everyone $10-20,000 in new lenses once again.
    Why do you need 61mpx, large prints do not need them because they constrained by the same lens resolving power and the Sony small flange assures soft corners no matter what.
    For IQ, all the cameras produced in the last 10 years exceed the printer and photographers skills. Any image hanging on walls of top galleries could have been shot with almost anything. But when visiting galleries that list shooting data you might want to take a look at what cameras were used. Not many were taken with Sony. In fact last year's International Press Photography awards in all categories 52% were taken with Nikon and less than 2% with Sony. That says nothing about image quality but a lot about what real pros rely on.
    If you want to stay with your current lenses and get the best DSLR ever made, get a D850. If you want mirrorless FF the two best bodies are Nikon and Panasonic S series. The S1 mirrorless but larger and pretty heavy but definitely pro build, and the Nikon Z are definitely high quality in materials, components and build. For corner to corner sharpness, the Z mount S lenses are not bettered by any brand despite being small, light and moderate cost. The 24-70 2.8 for example is the best zoom on the market. The lower cost 1.8 primes are stellar and all under $1000. The $700 85 1.8 S wild open is clearly superior to the Nikkor 85 1.4G and Sigma ART 85 1.4 which was the IQ champ before the lower cost Nikon S lenses.
    So, you won't be moving to Sony. LOL!
    As I said, I would love to stay with Nikon. That said a move to mirrorless seems inevitable to me and there are some benefits to it. Silent shutter, FPS, EVF, Video performance, autofocus seems to be advancing far fast that it did in DSLR's also.

    Sony and others gambled on the new tech, Nikon waited. I think there Z series is exceptional for a first generation but Sony and others have a massive head start that is evident in some aspects of performance. I want an extremely fast frame rate and autofocus capable camera as I shoot primarily Wildlife action. Even with 10 FPS in my D500, I wish I could get more frames of that critical few seconds that I may have waited hours, days or a lifetime to capture. The first Sony A9, now 2.5 years old, seems to compete or beat Nikons best focusing cameras and can do it at 20FPS! The Z series appear to even be slower in real world situations than what is claimed in the specs. Even Nikon doesn't claim them to be sports cameras.
    Some think I've already made up my mind, untrue. I am acquiring as much info as possible about who has the closest specs to my needs. The name on the camera doesn't qualify it or disqualify it.
    Nikon D500, D7200 Sigma 11-20 Pro f/2.8. Nikkor 18-140 VR. Sigma 150-600 Contemporary
    My Flickr page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/157345210@N07/

  3. #23
    Senior Member
    mikew's Avatar

    Re: Talk me out of switching to Sony.

    Ime sure i detect tones of a personal crusade developing, i see a lot of this with the m4/3 i use, sure the long term service will not be the same the further down the road we go but thats the way of things. My Leica 100-400 is none repairable from an owners point of view,if it goes wrong i can send it back to Panasonic and during warranty they will replace it with a refurbished unit, after warranty i can trade the faulty one back to them and buy a refurbished unit at a discount.
    Not ideal i know but i see similer situations becoming the norm as we move forward.
    I do not see the web being inundated with sony camera write of stories due to lack of support, i do see the odd story from owners complaining about many manufacturers but as is the nature only the unhappy post about it and we never get full stories.

    I cant find it now but i was reading about some aspects of the Nikon 1 series not being repairable any more.
    Last edited by mikew; 09-09-2019 at 09:49 AM.
    Thanks/Like Chris@sabor Thanks/liked this post
     
    Mike

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/7239177@N07/

    Olympus EM1MK11,Panasonic G80, 12-60mm, 60mm macro, Leica 100-400mm

    Nikon 1 V2,FT-1,10-30mm 30-110mm Viltrox extension tubes










  4. #24
    Senior Member
    Woodyg3's Avatar

    Re: Talk me out of switching to Sony.

    Apple won't work on any Apple computer over five years old. Not even to simply replace a hard drive. They call them "legacy" computers. I'm not surprised to hear that Sony won't repair older cameras. But, I can get my older Apple computers worked on by a local shop, are there are independent shops that will work on older Sonys? I don't know, just wondering.

    Without a crystal ball, Chris, we can't know what Nikon will produce in the mirrorless market in the near future. IMO, the best solution for guys like us who shoot wildlife would be a crop sensor mirrorless with the kind of performance the Sony A9 has. At least that's what I would like to see. And, I'm willing to wait and see what happens while I continue to be happy with my D500.
    Thanks/Like Chris@sabor Thanks/liked this post
     
    Woody Green

    Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose

    D500, D7200, D7100, D70

  5. #25
    Senior Member
    Danno's Avatar

    Re: Talk me out of switching to Sony.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris@sabor View Post
    So, you won't be moving to Sony. LOL!
    As I said, I would love to stay with Nikon. That said a move to mirrorless seems inevitable to me and there are some benefits to it. Silent shutter, FPS, EVF, Video performance, autofocus seems to be advancing far fast that it did in DSLR's also.

    Sony and others gambled on the new tech, Nikon waited. I think there Z series is exceptional for a first generation but Sony and others have a massive head start that is evident in some aspects of performance. I want an extremely fast frame rate and autofocus capable camera as I shoot primarily Wildlife action. Even with 10 FPS in my D500, I wish I could get more frames of that critical few seconds that I may have waited hours, days or a lifetime to capture. The first Sony A9, now 2.5 years old, seems to compete or beat Nikons best focusing cameras and can do it at 20FPS! The Z series appear to even be slower in real world situations than what is claimed in the specs. Even Nikon doesn't claim them to be sports cameras.
    Some think I've already made up my mind, untrue. I am acquiring as much info as possible about who has the closest specs to my needs. The name on the camera doesn't qualify it or disqualify it.
    Chris, I hope you find the move to Sony satisfying. It is pretty clear from the first post that you had your eye on the A9II. I hope it works for you. I also hope that they have done something to improve the ergonomics so you have a decent grip. I heard that they did change the 7IV to a better grip, but they did not fix the menus.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodyg3 View Post
    Apple won't work on any Apple computer over five years old. Not even to simply replace a hard drive. They call them "legacy" computers. I'm not surprised to hear that Sony won't repair older cameras. But, I can get my older Apple computers worked on by a local shop, are there are independent shops that will work on older Sonys? I don't know, just wondering.

    Without a crystal ball, Chris, we can't know what Nikon will produce in the mirrorless market in the near future. IMO, the best solution for guys like us who shoot wildlife would be a crop sensor mirrorless with the kind of performance the Sony A9 has. At least that's what I would like to see. And, I'm willing to wait and see what happens while I continue to be happy with my D500.
    Woody, I hear that a crop sensor is in the works. I am hoping it would be like the D500 with more megapixels. There have been some models showing up on rumor sites. But there are always rumors.
    Thanks/Like Chris@sabor Thanks/liked this post
     
    Dan~~Kentucky

    "The natural man must know in order to believe; The spiritual man must believe in order to know. " ~ Aiden Wilson Tozer ~ "The Dwelling Place of God"

    Nikon Z 6 Nikon D7200 w/Grip, Nikon D700 w/Grip, AF-S Nikkor 200-500mm f/5.6E ED VR, Nikon 14-24 f/2.8, Nikkor 50mm/1.8G, Tamron 28-75, Tamron 70-200 F/2.8
    Yongnuo Speedlight YN568EX, Vanguard ALTA Pro 264AB Tripod, Vanguard
    SBH-100 ball head Beike Gimbal Head, ARCA Swiss B1 ball head

    https://www.dailywalkinthelight.com

  6. #26
    Senior Member
    Woodyg3's Avatar

    Re: Talk me out of switching to Sony.

    Woody, I hear that a crop sensor is in the works. I am hoping it would be like the D500 with more megapixels. There have been some models showing up on rumor sites. But there are always rumors.
    I think I did read something about that. Maybe by the time it comes out I'll actually have some money for it. Right now insurance and house repairs are taking all my money.
    Best Answers Danno voted best answer for this post
     
    Woody Green

    Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose

    D500, D7200, D7100, D70

  7. #27
    Senior Member
    Danno's Avatar

    Re: Talk me out of switching to Sony.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodyg3 View Post
    I think I did read something about that. Maybe by the time it comes out I'll actually have some money for it. Right now insurance and house repairs are taking all my money.
    I hear that.. I just finished replacing a 200 foot water line. I think my checkbook is in mourning.
    Thanks/Like Woodyg3 Thanks/liked this post
     
    Dan~~Kentucky

    "The natural man must know in order to believe; The spiritual man must believe in order to know. " ~ Aiden Wilson Tozer ~ "The Dwelling Place of God"

    Nikon Z 6 Nikon D7200 w/Grip, Nikon D700 w/Grip, AF-S Nikkor 200-500mm f/5.6E ED VR, Nikon 14-24 f/2.8, Nikkor 50mm/1.8G, Tamron 28-75, Tamron 70-200 F/2.8
    Yongnuo Speedlight YN568EX, Vanguard ALTA Pro 264AB Tripod, Vanguard
    SBH-100 ball head Beike Gimbal Head, ARCA Swiss B1 ball head

    https://www.dailywalkinthelight.com

  8. #28
    Senior Member
    Bikerbrent's Avatar

    Re: Talk me out of switching to Sony.

    The big issue I have with Sony is their very poor customer support. Sony's policy seems to be the day they discontinue a product is the same day they stop offering any support for the item. It happened with my Sony Betamax VCR, my Sony pocket electronic organizer and some other items. I have also read too many horror stories about lack of support for discontinued Sony cameras to buy anything more from Sony.
    Thanks/Like Chris@sabor Thanks/liked this post
     
    Brent: Poway, CA
    D7200, D200, F100
    Tokina 12-24mm
    Nikon 18-200mm
    Tokina 28-70mm f2.6-2.8
    Nikon 80-200mm f2.8
    Sigma 150-600mm
    Nikon 50 AF f1.8
    Tokina 100mm f2.8 Macro
    Nikon SB800

  9. #29
    Senior Member

    Re: Talk me out of switching to Sony.

    Quote Originally Posted by hark View Post
    Jake, thanks for sharing your knowledge with everything you wrote. Since you have firsthand experience shooting with both a D500 and a Sony Mirrorless, it really helps. And thanks for the info on the Topaz software. That's something I will look into myself.
    Just to be clear, as nice as the a6000 is, it's not in the same ballpark as the a7's and a9's - totally different experience. I've yet to pick up a Z body but I did play with my brother's Canon and the mirrorless stuff is amazing in some of its functionality.
    Thanks/Like hark, Chris@sabor Thanks/liked this post
     
    Jake

    The imitator is a poor kind of creature. If the man who paints only the tree, or flower, or other surface he sees before him were an artist, the king of artists would be the photographer. James McNeill Whistler

  10. #30
    Staff
    Super Mod
    hark's Avatar

    Re: Talk me out of switching to Sony.

    Quote Originally Posted by BackdoorHippie View Post
    Just to be clear, as nice as the a6000 is, it's not in the same ballpark as the a7's and a9's - totally different experience. I've yet to pick up a Z body but I did play with my brother's Canon and the mirrorless stuff is amazing in some of its functionality.
    Yes I remember you had a different Sony mirrorless body, but you also know a lot of the specs and have firsthand experience with mirrorless. Plus your brother is an amazing pro photographer - no doubt you are well-educated with lots of the new tech between his knowledge and your own. Thank you so much for weighing in!
    Cindy
    Flickr
    and My 2019 Thread

    Where the Spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art
    -- Leonardo da Vinci







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