Focus Stacking

Dangerspouse

Senior Member
I purchased my camera + macro lens primarily to do product photography for my wife. She needs 1:1 shots of very small objects, like single threads in a stitched piece. This presents no problem as long as the object is flat, like a sampler. But some of her pieces are 3 dimensional, and there I start running into depth of field problems.

Last week I finally decided to join the 21st Century and got a subscription to Lightroom (Classic). While checking out tutorials I came across instructions for how to focus stack, which seems like just the sort of technique I need to fix my DOF issues.

However, all the online instructions for focus stacking require both Lightroom and Photoshop. I don't have Photoshop. Does anyone here know if focus stacking can be done solely in Lightroom, and if so, how?

Thanks very much!
 

pforsell

Senior Member
I purchased my camera + macro lens primarily to do product photography for my wife. She needs 1:1 shots of very small objects, like single threads in a stitched piece. This presents no problem as long as the object is flat, like a sampler. But some of her pieces are 3 dimensional, and there I start running into depth of field problems.

Last week I finally decided to join the 21st Century and got a subscription to Lightroom (Classic). While checking out tutorials I came across instructions for how to focus stack, which seems like just the sort of technique I need to fix my DOF issues.

However, all the online instructions for focus stacking require both Lightroom and Photoshop. I don't have Photoshop. Does anyone here know if focus stacking can be done solely in Lightroom, and if so, how?

Thanks very much!

How about a specialized stacking software? There are several of them, but CombineZP is free while Zerene Stacker and Helicon Focus cost some money. There are plenty of others, do a google search.

If you don't need PS for anything more than stacking, these other options might be way more economical. And they have a lot of automation built in.
 

Fred Kingston

Senior Member
Well… Let’s see if we can wade thru this…

You say you Bought a subscription to Lightroom Classic… It sounds like you may have bought the wrong package… Maybe Adobe can change/correct it for you…

https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/plans.html

This is the plan you want… It includes both Lightroom and Photoshop…

If this is the plan you subscribed to…then you just need to download Photoshop…

Otherwise, to answer your basic question, “No, LR by itself doesn’t do Focus stacking to my knowledge…

There are several other programs that do Focus stacking… StarStax is free. Helicon Focus has several free/paid packages
 

Dangerspouse

Senior Member
How about a specialized stacking software? There are several of them, but CombineZP is free while Zerene Stacker and Helicon Focus cost some money. There are plenty of others, do a google search.

If you don't need PS for anything more than stacking, these other options might be way more economical. And they have a lot of automation built in.

Thank you very much, that is extremely helpful. I'll look into CombineZP when I get home later. Much appreciated!
 

Dangerspouse

Senior Member
Well… Let’s see if we can wade thru this…

You say you Bought a subscription to Lightroom Classic… It sounds like you may have bought the wrong package… Maybe Adobe can change/correct it for you…

https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/plans.html

This is the plan you want… It includes both Lightroom and Photoshop…

If this is the plan you subscribed to…then you just need to download Photoshop…

Otherwise, to answer your basic question, “No, LR by itself doesn’t do Focus stacking to my knowledge…

There are several other programs that do Focus stacking… StarStax is free. Helicon Focus has several free/paid packages

Thanks so much for that! I'll check which version I have when I get home later (my wife is the one who actually downloaded it) and see if we have it available.

I'm grateful for you guys taking the time to answer this. All the best to both of you.

Tom
 

nickt

Senior Member
Yeh, you should get LR and PS as part of the $10/month photography package. Adobe plays some marketing games and doesn't always show everybody the same offerings. Sometimes you have to dig.
How big are the objects and how much detail do you need? Before you get too involved with the stacking, try a high aperture and back up a couple of feet. You will need more shutter time and/or more light. As you back up, dof increases. You should have plenty of mp to do some cropping to get back to a close view. If you are not using a tripod, then you will need flash or more light. Keep your iso low though. I like somewhere between 100-400. Try to focus on a midpoint front to rear, not the front face of the object.

Here are a couple of quick shots. Handheld with flash and I used single point autofocus. With a tripod and manual focus you can do better. Find your sweet spot for backing up but still having enough detail after cropping. Some like to use live view to manually focus, you can zoom and really get it perfect.

D71_1129.jpg


D71_1131.jpg
 

pforsell

Senior Member
@Dangerspouse You got good advice above. As per your OP, you might need a lot more magnification though. When shooting for stacks, don't close the aperture too much. If you go beyond f/8 or f/11 you will lose detail and resolution due to diffraction. Better to shoot a few more shots for the stack.

If you will be doing a lot of those kind of shots, consider an automatic focus stacking rail. You can program the step size and number of steps and leave the rail and camera do the job. Tether your camera to a laptop, and your images will be on your hard drive ready to be stacked. Minimal hassle, maximum productivity. I use the Cognisys StackShot, but there are others in every price bracket.
 

pforsell

Senior Member
Adding to my own post... if/when you need very large magnifications the stacking operation would be best done using bellows so that the front standard (lens) doesn't move but the camera instead. This way the magnification doesn't change as much and you won't get halos caused by size difference of the subject in consecutive frames.

I don't know if that makes linguistically any sense... english is my third language. If that is gibberish please let me know and I try to draw a diagram to clarify my point.
 

Dangerspouse

Senior Member
Yeh, you should get LR and PS as part of the $10/month photography package. Adobe plays some marketing games and doesn't always show everybody the same offerings. Sometimes you have to dig.
How big are the objects and how much detail do you need? Before you get too involved with the stacking, try a high aperture and back up a couple of feet. You will need more shutter time and/or more light. As you back up, dof increases. You should have plenty of mp to do some cropping to get back to a close view. If you are not using a tripod, then you will need flash or more light. Keep your iso low though. I like somewhere between 100-400. Try to focus on a midpoint front to rear, not the front face of the object.

Here are a couple of quick shots. Handheld with flash and I used single point autofocus. With a tripod and manual focus you can do better. Find your sweet spot for backing up but still having enough detail after cropping. Some like to use live view to manually focus, you can zoom and really get it perfect.

Thank you for those excellent tips, and the gorgeous examples! I appreciate the advice, it's very, very useful info.

Here's an example of the kind of detail she needs. This first shot is one of the thimble boxes she sells, and this sort of picture is what gets put in catalogs and product packages:

Thimble box.jpg

This next pic shows the kind of zoom she needs to do her work. She charts reproductions of historical samplers and needs to know details of individual threads in order to insure accuracy. These pictures are sometimes included in her retail kits to show others as well. (This is a detail of the box pictured above, which I used as a test subject):

Thread macro.jpg

This was inside a light tent, on a tripod, with a 40mm Nikkor micro (prime),two side spotlights and a front mounted ring light:

Macro Setup Lightbox.jpg

Unfortunately that's the only lens I have with 1:1 micro ability. I've tried my other lenses with a reverse mount adapter, but nothing matches the quality pics I get with that 40. And for really tight shots like that second pic, I'm not sure I'm steady enough to go hand-held even if I could afford the 105-micro Nikkor.

However, you've given me a lot to think about so I'm going to take your advice and see how things work backing up a bit, using a higher aperture, and then cropping down. Thanks again for that!

:)
 

Dangerspouse

Senior Member
Adding to my own post... if/when you need very large magnifications the stacking operation would be best done using bellows so that the front standard (lens) doesn't move but the camera instead. This way the magnification doesn't change as much and you won't get halos caused by size difference of the subject in consecutive frames.

I don't know if that makes linguistically any sense... english is my third language. If that is gibberish please let me know and I try to draw a diagram to clarify my point.

Your English is perfect. I never would have known it was not your native tongue if you hadn't mentioned it. Everything you wrote was crystal clear and does not require visual diagrams. I'm very impressed!

Unfortunately, money is a bit of an issue. I probably would not be able to afford some of the equipment you recommend, starting with the laptop, which I don't own (your Cognisys costs more than my entire rig, for instance). I do see some reasonably priced macro rails for sale, but they are all manual models rather than automatic. Do you think there is much difference, other than convenience?

Your advice to not go beyond f/16 is sound, and something I didn't know. Thanks very much, that's probably something I would have made a mistake with while trying to get greater DOF. I'll keep that in mind now.

Thank you again for taking the time to address my question so thoroughly! I'm very grateful.
 

STM

Senior Member
Focus stacking is a very powerful tool for photographing small objects where you want to have depth of field deeper than can be accomplished with aperture alone (or you would not want to stop all the way down due to softening thanks to diffraction). This little critter was only 5mm long from leg tip to leg tip. I was using a 35mm f/2 AIS Nikkor reversed with the D700 on a macro rail. I took a total of 12 images and merged them in PS CC but the results are just what I wanted!


Jumping Spider.jpg
 

Dangerspouse

Senior Member
Focus stacking is a very powerful tool for photographing small objects where you want to have depth of field deeper than can be accomplished with aperture alone (or you would not want to stop all the way down due to softening thanks to diffraction). This little critter was only 5mm long from leg tip to leg tip. I was using a 35mm f/2 AIS Nikkor reversed with the D700 on a macro rail. I took a total of 12 images and merged them in PS CC but the results are just what I wanted!

That's a terrific picture. Thanks for posting it as an example of what I'm looking for!
 

nickt

Senior Member
.........However, you've given me a lot to think about so I'm going to take your advice and see how things work backing up a bit, using a higher aperture, and then cropping down. Thanks again for that!

:)

Give it a try. I shoot a lot of bugs and they are often on the move. The high aperture and flash give me some wiggle room for a handheld shot. There is some defraction from the high aperture but its a trade off for a quick handheld shot. You will be on a tripod, so maybe a medium-not-too-high aperture plus some distance will work for you. You could try a zoom lens too from across the room. You can make things look nicer in LR. The new texture slider is interesting, haven't played with it much yet.

I mentioned above that you can focus in live view because you can zoom in and get it better. Just be aware that if you change aperture after entering live view the new dof won't be reflected on the screen, so just take the pic and check dof. The aperture will stop down correctly for the shot. Some of the high end Nikons have the mechanics to change the aperture while live view is in progress.

Nothing against stacking, its a great tool and will likely give you the best results. Hopefully you end up with photoshop too and can play with that as well.
 

Dangerspouse

Senior Member
Give it a try. I shoot a lot of bugs and they are often on the move. The high aperture and flash give me some wiggle room for a handheld shot. There is some defraction from the high aperture but its a trade off for a quick handheld shot. You will be on a tripod, so maybe a medium-not-too-high aperture plus some distance will work for you. You could try a zoom lens too from across the room. You can make things look nicer in LR. The new texture slider is interesting, haven't played with it much yet.

I mentioned above that you can focus in live view because you can zoom in and get it better. Just be aware that if you change aperture after entering live view the new dof won't be reflected on the screen, so just take the pic and check dof. The aperture will stop down correctly for the shot. Some of the high end Nikons have the mechanics to change the aperture while live view is in progress.

Nothing against stacking, its a great tool and will likely give you the best results. Hopefully you end up with photoshop too and can play with that as well.

Wow, great stuff. Thanks so much again! I've got the day off, so I'll start playing.

I've gotta say though, I'm finding Lightroom (and, it turns out, Photoshop WAS included and has now been downloaded) to be way above my skill set. We only just got it last week, and because I'm jumping into it with little to no computer experience, let alone processing experience, I'm having a very difficult time with even the most basic operations. Wish me luck....

Thanks again!

:encouragement:
 

nickt

Senior Member
Great training videos on the Adobe site. Start with basics on importing files. Get that out of they way so you can get started without worrying about where your pictures are. Get some pictures in there and jump to the develop module and just play with the sliders. Work down the list and try with each one. You can reset a tool by clicking on its name next to the slider. Or you can reset everything down at the bottom. Google each tool if need be. Many are obvious. Some, I don't mess with yet. Lightroom won't alter your originals so that is good. Nothing to save either, it will remember what you've done when you close. When you are happy, you export your image as a new file. There are videos on that too.
 
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