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  1. #11
    Senior Member
    Chucktin's Avatar

    Re: "Automagic" ISO setting on a DSLR

    I always think of (electronic) noise in a DSLR as the equivalent of fog in a film emulsion's "base+fog" dynamic.

    The more we push-processed, or the longer we stored a specific brick of still film, the higher the base+fog we observed.

    Really noise is a good indicator of Image Quality because it is a resultant of the internal circuitry attached to a sensor chip.

    As the cameras matured the noise decreased due to better manufacturing and better design choices by Nikon/Canon/Sony/Fuji, etc. However those decisions cost $ that some manufacturers choose to forgo.


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  2. #12
    Senior Member

    Re: "Automagic" ISO setting on a DSLR

    ThanksChucktin,

    I recall some folk saying in the old days that you had to store color film for a certain number of months before it was at its best.

    Speaking of fog... there is the classic case of Kodak's fogged sheet film back in the late '50s or early '60s. The Kepner-Tregoe problem solving methodology used that as one of their case studies. I recall taking a K-T course MANY years ago. The instructor described the symptoms - Kodak was receiving complaints about high end sheet film being fogged right out of the package. We the students were supposed to apply the K-T process to solve the problem.

    As it turns out there was a chemist and rather remarkable character in the class. He said before we even started "I bet it's the separator paper between the sheets." This of course WAS the cause - residue from some chemical used in bleaching the paper interacted with the film. Blew that example/exercise out of the water. Turns out the chemist was an avid photographer and had been involved in investigating the Kodak paper fiasco.

    Ken

  3. #13
    Senior Member
    Chucktin's Avatar

    Re: "Automagic" ISO setting on a DSLR

    Yes, I have heard both stories. But by that time we were 80/90 percent roll film. The biggest row was the 35mm fans vs the 120 fans with the sheet filmers making up the rest.
    Auto ISO is a useful adjunct but I keep mine manually set as low as I can to maximize image quality.
    Thanks/Like singlerosa Thanks/liked this post
     

  4. #14
    Senior Member
    Texas's Avatar

    Re: "Automagic" ISO setting on a DSLR

    I remember when the open air nuke testing in Nevada caused some serious fog problems at the Kodak film factory in NY state.
    D750, D90, D100, Nikon 1 J5
    (Once owned: EL, F2AS, D50, D200, D300s, and D7100)

  5. #15
    Staff
    Super Mod
    hark's Avatar

    Re: "Automagic" ISO setting on a DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by BackdoorHippie View Post
    This exactly. Though I use Auto ISO in Aperture Priority all the time as well.

    ISO in the digital realm is a measure of amplification of light information after the sensor processes it. All current Nikon models have a "Native ISO" of 100, meaning that what you get at ISO 100 is pure from the sensor with no amplification. If you think about amplification in musical terms native ISO is where a guitar amplifier is delivering full, pure tone from the instrument with no distortion (i.e. "noise") of the signal. As you increase the volume (i.e. go to higher ISO values) from that point the signal will begin to distort (i.e. get noisier). How much depends on the amp/camera. Some begin to distort quickly, others may take some time, but at some point they'll all get noisy. I've found most current sensors to be really good through about 6400 depending on the amount of detail in the frame. My first Nikon, a D7000, couldn't go past 1600. My D750 can do 6400 easy. My D500 can get there as well, but for birds I don't like anything above 4000 and prefer to keep it at 3200. I should add that many cameras allow you to go below 100 which is attenuation instead of amplification. Again as with an amplifier you will lose something when you do it, the question is whether you even notice it and whether it can be dealt with in post.

    Speaking of which, all this assumes you're shooting RAW, which you should. All the time.

    With each camera I have I decide what the maximum acceptable ISO setting is for whatever situation I'm in and then I program the Auto ISO settings so that they do not exceed that while also capping the shutter speed in a way that guarantees I don't accidentally blur the photo by moving while shooting in Aperture. That leaves me to concentrate on the shot instead of the camera.

    Does that make me less of a photographer? Don't know, don't care. Are Formula One drivers today lesser drivers than those who pioneered the sport with lesser cars and manual everything? Are golfers today less talented than Jack and Arnie because they have more forgiving equipment? Honestly, who cares.

    I think anything that allows an artist of any type to concentrate on the result instead of the tools used to create it is a good thing. Sure using a DSLR is easier, but so is just about anything these days. For film photographers I can see how features like this can make you think less of the skill of the photographers using it, but for me it's all about a tradesman with a tool thing - when you're given a tool you learn how to use it to its fullest.
    I realize this is a somewhat old post but have reached the point where I need to use Auto ISO. I just don't understand Jake's comment about using Auto ISO while in Aperture Priority mode. I know how to set it in Manual Mode. How does the shutter get controlled if the camera is using Auto ISO in Aperture Priority?

    I keep U1 programmed for BBF in Aperture Priority with a set value for my aperture and my ISO (wasn't using Auto ISO). When I needed it yesterday, I missed the shot since my shutter was too slow (around 1/400" for BIF). U2 is programmed for BBF in Manual Mode. I want to set up both of these to incorporate Auto ISO. I can do the Manual Mode one. But how to I determine my shutter speed while in Aperture Priority? Does anyone know?
    Cindy
    Flickr
    and My 2019 Thread

    Where the Spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art
    -- Leonardo da Vinci



  6. #16
    Staff
    Super Mod
    hark's Avatar

    Re: "Automagic" ISO setting on a DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by hark View Post
    I realize this is a somewhat old post but have reached the point where I need to use Auto ISO. I just don't understand Jake's comment about using Auto ISO while in Aperture Priority mode. I know how to set it in Manual Mode. How does the shutter get controlled if the camera is using Auto ISO in Aperture Priority?

    I keep U1 programmed for BBF in Aperture Priority with a set value for my aperture and my ISO (wasn't using Auto ISO). When I needed it yesterday, I missed the shot since my shutter was too slow (around 1/400" for BIF). U2 is programmed for BBF in Manual Mode. I want to set up both of these to incorporate Auto ISO. I can do the Manual Mode one. But how to I determine my shutter speed while in Aperture Priority? Does anyone know?
    I did some digging and figured out the settings for Auto ISO in Aperture Priority while setting a minimum shutter speed value. Those settings are saved as U1 and U2. What I don't understand now is why I cannot set Aperture Priority for Auto ISO while Manual Mode is a straight ISO value. If it's set as Auto ISO while in Aperture Priority, it stays in Auto ISO for Manual Mode. Oh well. I turned Auto ISO off for those and only have it set for U1 and U2. That will be fast to change the settings.
    Cindy
    Flickr
    and My 2019 Thread

    Where the Spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art
    -- Leonardo da Vinci



  7. #17
    Senior Member
    Horoscope Fish's Avatar

    Re: "Automagic" ISO setting on a DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by hark View Post
    I realize this is a somewhat old post but have reached the point where I need to use Auto ISO. I just don't understand Jake's comment about using Auto ISO while in Aperture Priority mode. I know how to set it in Manual Mode. How does the shutter get controlled if the camera is using Auto ISO in Aperture Priority?

    I keep U1 programmed for BBF in Aperture Priority with a set value for my aperture and my ISO (wasn't using Auto ISO). When I needed it yesterday, I missed the shot since my shutter was too slow (around 1/400" for BIF). U2 is programmed for BBF in Manual Mode. I want to set up both of these to incorporate Auto ISO. I can do the Manual Mode one. But how to I determine my shutter speed while in Aperture Priority? Does anyone know?
    It gets complicated. You might find this article helpful... Skip down to section 5.1) Aperture Priority with Auto ISO :: What is Auto-ISO
    Last edited by Horoscope Fish; 01-24-2019 at 09:47 PM.
    Thanks/Like hark Thanks/liked this post
     
    ~ Paul
    ....
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    Primary Kit :: D750 (OLPF Removed), MB-D10; Tamron 70-200mm f/2.8 Di VC USD G2, Sigma 135mm f/1.8 Art, Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art,
    Godox Flashes & Triggers, Manfrotto X055PROB, 3-Legged Thing Airhed II... All Stuffed into a Manfrotto Pro Backpack 50
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  8. #18
    Staff
    Super Mod
    hark's Avatar

    Re: "Automagic" ISO setting on a DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by Horoscope Fish View Post
    It gets complicated. You might find this article helpful... Skip down to section 5.1) Aperture Priority with Auto ISO :: What is Auto-ISO
    Thanks for this info, Paul. It's interesting as well as informative. I forget about that web site--he supplies excellent information.

    I have U1 set for Aperture Priority with Auto ISO and U2 for Manual Mode with Auto ISO. Most likely the latter is the one I will now use. I'm accustomed to working in Manual Mode although not with Auto ISO. It should work well for my shooting style since it's SUPER easy to change aperture AND shutter speed on the fly.

    The thing that annoys me is how the Nikon DSLR bodies are set up for changing the ISO. There is a button on the rear that gets pushed along with scrolling the rear wheel. BUT if the image display has not yet turned off, you cannot change the ISO. The rear display simply changes from showing 1 image to showing multiple images. And that's exactly what happened yesterday. As soon as I went to change the ISO, the image display split the screen into multiple images. And I knew I lost my chance at getting a decent shot with better settings.
    Cindy
    Flickr
    and My 2019 Thread

    Where the Spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art
    -- Leonardo da Vinci



  9. #19
    Senior Member
    Michael J.'s Avatar

    Re: "Automagic" ISO setting on a DSLR

    "Automagic" ISO setting on a DSLR
    Quote Originally Posted by hark View Post
    I realize this is a somewhat old post but have reached the point where I need to use Auto ISO. I just don't understand Jake's comment about using Auto ISO while in Aperture Priority mode. I know how to set it in Manual Mode. How does the shutter get controlled if the camera is using Auto ISO in Aperture Priority?

    I keep U1 programmed for BBF in Aperture Priority with a set value for my aperture and my ISO (wasn't using Auto ISO). When I needed it yesterday, I missed the shot since my shutter was too slow (around 1/400" for BIF). U2 is programmed for BBF in Manual Mode. I want to set up both of these to incorporate Auto ISO. I can do the Manual Mode one. But how to I determine my shutter speed while in Aperture Priority? Does anyone know?
    I followed this steps and it works great

    Thanks/Like hark Thanks/liked this post
     
    Michael J.
    Camera: Nikon D7200
    Lenses: Tamron 70-300mm F4-5.6 Di VC USD A030, SIGMA 17-50 mm. f 2.8


    Don't get confused between my personality and my attitude. My personality is who I am, my attitude depends on who you are.

  10. #20
    Staff
    Super Mod
    hark's Avatar

    Re: "Automagic" ISO setting on a DSLR

    "Automagic" ISO setting on a DSLR
    Quote Originally Posted by M.J. View Post
    I followed this steps and it works great


    Thanks for this, M.J.! That had 2 things in it I hadn't known. @Horoscope Fish - did you know about either of these?

    1. With some bodies, there is/was a glitch when setting Auto ISO. Near the end of the video, he went in and turned off Auto ISO, lowered his ISO to 100, then went back in and set Auto ISO. Coincidentally mine was set for ISO 1600 like his, and when I went into the rear screen, it displayed as ISO 1600 even though it should have gone lower.

    2. While in Aperture Priority with Auto ISO, he shows an alternative to using the +/- button for exposure compensation. That can be changed to raise/lower with the rear wheel instead of the 2-handed method.

    Thanks again, Michael. Good to know this.
    Thanks/Like Michael J. Thanks/liked this post
     
    Cindy
    Flickr
    and My 2019 Thread

    Where the Spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art
    -- Leonardo da Vinci







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