Washed out long exp shots?

thequeenscheese

Senior Member
I recently had a go at some long exposure shots, I stacked my nod filters up to about nd20 (2x nd8 and 1 nd4) I lowered the appeture to f22 (lowest for lens) and took 3 shots with multiple exp turned on (3max for d5300) with varying shutters from 6 to 13 secs.

the problem I'm having is they all look washed out and colourless the exposure was about at 10sec shutter for the conditions but detail and colour was poor.

now obviously I see brilliant pics with long shutter but that are very colourfull with deep blue sky's and detail in the main subject, so what am I probably doing wrong do I have the wrong filters?, I know a single filter over stacking would be better but before I splash out I'd like the advice first on what to get..

cheers John..
 

thequeenscheese

Senior Member
Hi, thanks for replying I generally use LR and ps mostly LR my iOS is usually 100 or 200 to try and keep the noise down, and in this case get longer exp.
i have added saturation, vibrancy, contrast etc in post, but I was expecting a better image to a start with needing less attention in post, when I get 5 I'll post my before and anfters..
 

Blade Canyon

Senior Member
I bought some cheap ND filters on Amazon, and had the same problem. You need high quality filters that are truly "Neutral" to get realistic color. What brand did you buy?
 

thequeenscheese

Senior Member
I have some varying filter brands mainly andeer or whatever their called and Jacobs admittedly nothing 2 expensive I didn't want to spend too much until I understood the process more and knew what I wanted , admittedly I didn't cover vf.
 

Blade Canyon

Senior Member
One other idea is to buy a Color Checker Passport. You put that in your first shot, then you can tell Photoshop to adjust the photos to make the Color Checker come out right, and that fixes the rest of your pictures.
 

thequeenscheese

Senior Member
Not heard of this tbh I'll have to read up, I've just ordered 2 Hoyas nod 8 and nd1000 10stop hopefully that will make the pics work better ( I hope so for the price anyway)
 

Blade Canyon

Senior Member
Not heard of this tbh I'll have to read up, I've just ordered 2 Hoyas nod 8 and nd1000 10stop hopefully that will make the pics work better ( I hope so for the price anyway)

It's very straightforward. The Color Checker (or it's smaller Passport version) is a checkerboard of colors. You take the first picture with the checkerboard in the photograph.

Later, in post, you open that picture first and let the Color Checker software adjust the picture until the checkerboard colors all look correct. Then you save that adjustment as a Camera Profile so you can apply it to all subsequent shots from the same shoot.

Many videos on Youtube, but the short videos are mostly garbage unless you already know what they're talking about.

Here's a link to the company's training video page. I can't link directly to the color checker video.

Understanding Color Management: X-Rite Photo & Video
 

spb_stan

Senior Member
Why would you be putting that many ND filters on to lower the light that much but allow so much light leakage from the VF? There is nothing wrong with the camera or filters(might be poor filters however) but calculate how much light attenuation you added, you will find it was way too much for any useful scene. Are you taking closeup photos of arc-welding? 40 stops of attenuation is far more than needed and will allow very very little light information in, so will be noisy even if you did not let so much light leak in from the VF.
Experiment with the 4 stop filter and get used to it and than use an 8 and maybe just maybe in very bright conditions you could use an 8 and a 4 but accept the lower resolution due to diffraction in f/22 apertures. Really small apertures can't be as sharp as normal rages due to diffraction. ND filters allow normal apertures in brighter light, but f/22 is going to be lacking sharpness and edge contrast regardless of light on a fine pitch high density sensor like the 24-36 mpx sensors used in recent models. Optimum sharpness is closer to f/5-f/8.
Set up the camera on the tripod and focus normally at a moderate aperture, say f/8 and and establish correct exposure. Switch to MF, cover the VF so no light can get in( could layers or black electrical tape works well on camera without a VF shutter). Increase shutter speed 8 stops and screw on the ND8 filter. If you need more field depth, increase it by stopping down, but trading DOF for sharpness
 

thequeenscheese

Senior Member
I'm new to trying this and have to admit had no idea what I was really doing, in my mind the clouds were moving very slow so I needed to have a longer exposure to capture this, which I achieved by lowering the appeture and adding multiple filters.

wiether that's right or wrong tbh I don't really know..
 

Blade Canyon

Senior Member
You could also try shooting after the sun goes down while the clouds are still visible. You might be surprised at the depth of color in the result, with no ND filter.
 

Pretzel

Senior Member
I hate to say it, but blah blah blah about viewfinder leakage? (Hope I don't offend anyone, LOL) Admittedly amateur seat-of-the-pants experience and testing commented on below: (there, that should cover me)

None of my long exposure shots have ever been used with anything covering the viewfinder, and I've never had exposure issues. That includes star shots in the dark, and/or ocean shots with an ND filter in the daytime. One thing that helps is going to live view so the viewfinder is internally blocked by default. ;) Having said that, though, I've never even done that, and still never experienced viewfinder bleedover, but I haven't ever had to worry about odd light sources hitting it either. Maybe I'm doing it wrong? I'm wanting to attempt some steel wool shots in a parking lot soon, so will be going live view for that in case people drive by, but wouldn't that resolve the need for covering the viewfinder? (anyone with more experience, please feel free to correct me here)

I wouldn't think that viewfinder bleed would just wash out the color though, but would rather just overexpose parts or the whole of the image, so I'm betting it's the filters themselves. Perhaps your new Hoyas will correct the issue, or maybe the shutter speed isn't matching the ND stops. Hope to hear and see great results once the new filters come in!

NOTE: I don't stack ND filters though. I bought one of the ICE brand ND filters, 10 stop, and use it exclusively.
 
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480sparky

Senior Member
.......viewfinder leakage?........ Maybe I'm doing it wrong?........... .


Light leaks through the viewfinder are not the same in every camera. Some have few problems, some are terrible for it. I don't know of any 'list' that exists that says Camera ABC has few issues while XYZ is terrible. Perhaps you've gotten lucky with your choices of cameras.

Of course, shooting stars at night kind of precludes the need for covering the VF.
 

thequeenscheese

Senior Member
I couldn't use live view as annoyingly on the d5300 it won't let me use multiple exposure setting in live view - why I've no idea I think Nikon just turned certain things off on the lower spec cameras which is annoying really.

i wish I could find someone who has hacked the fw on the d5300 and made the multiple exp setting for 1 take more than 3 shots maybe up to 10 would be good, as this is an area where the lower end of the nikons suffer against the Sony for eg..
 

spb_stan

Senior Member
Washed out color would be a symptom of light leakage, and decreased contrast, not over exposure. The same with light off axis falling on a lens, outside the frame that adds a whitish fog over the image. It is similar to off axis flare but without the distinct pattern or colors, since the light from the VF is unfocused and highly diffused, unlike light entering off axis of a lens light path. It is real so if you have not gotten it, the camera might have a smaller penta-prism or have a penta-mirror. It is more of a problem with full frame solely do to the larger VF. Even if minor contamination, loss of contrast is expected. If you don't get it, it is a matter of luck and probably a small VF objective lens
 
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