Would a photo that has

tea2085

Senior Member
Horizonal and vertical resolution 240dpi, and width 3648 height 2081 be good enough to blow up to an 18x20 metal print? I have a photo of my granddaughter that I would like to have done by Nations. Thanks, Paul
 

cwgrizz

Senior Member
Challenge Team
@tea2085
I can't really answer that, but doesn't Nations have a chart of suggested sizes to resolutions chart? I think I have seen it there or on one of the photo processing sites.
 

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
Horizonal and vertical resolution 240dpi, and width 3648 height 2081 be good enough to blow up to an 18x20 metal print? I have a photo of my granddaughter that I would like to have done by Nations. Thanks, Paul
Those files should be fine; I've done 16x20's with similar size/res file with excellent results.
 

WayneF

Senior Member
The current 240 dpi is just a number stored in the file, which has no meaning yet. A new dpi number will be computed for the new paper dimensions.

There are two difficulties. Your 3648x2081 pixel image is very nearly 16:9 wide screen format, but you want a 20x18 print, which is more nearly (almost) a square shape. So to fit the paper SHAPE, you have to crop off quite a bit of the ends of the image, to be 2312x2081, which is then the same SHAPE as the 20x18 paper. Then only 4.8 megapixels, and the 2312 pixels / 20 inches will print at only 115 dpi. Probably will be OK, but it will be best viewed from a slight distance in the room, not up real close. A 10x8 inch print would print at 2x or 230 dpi, which is photo quality. You might want to print both sizes.

The image possibly may not allow that much cropping, not without cutting off a head or something. If you wanted to cut a mask for the frame, you can avoid cropping by printing on 20x18 paper, but call them with special instructions to fill the 20 inch dimension, and don't fill the 18 inch dimension (allow blank white edges, unprinted paper... print the full image area). This original shape will print 20x11.4 inches at 182 dpi. Then trim it and frame it with a mask cut to fit the image.
 
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WayneF

Senior Member
Well, your 3648x2081 pixels are aspect ratio of 1.75:1 (the ratio of the two sides)

20x16 is aspect ratio 20/16 = 1.25 :1, so the 20x16 degree of mismatch is slightly different, but they are still quite different shapes. The pixels still print 20x11.4 inches.


Making up other numbers for example, but the problem is much like you have a 6x10 image but you want to print it on 6x5 paper. They are simply not the same shape, a long and thin image, but paper that is more nearly square. You can either crop it to be the paper shape, or you can print the full image to not fill all of the paper.
 
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tea2085

Senior Member
I went to Nations site as grzz suggested. I,m now thinking 16x24 which would give me an aspect ratio of 8x12 and includes the tiny hands (most of the other aspect ratios cut half of each hand). It will cost me a little more but IT'S CHRISTMAS! How does that sound Wayne? I'm terrible with numbers. Thanks to all the guys for the fine help. Paul
 

WayneF

Senior Member
I have not seen your picture, so no clue what crop works for it. See Image Resize - Cropping, Resampling, Scaling for a chart of common aspect ratios. The problem is that you said your image was 3648x2081, which is 1.75:1. That is very near 16:9, which camcorders shoot, and is the bottom entry in that chart, an image that is long and thin compared to more regular images.
8x12 is called 2:3, which is 1.5:1, and is what DSLR and 35mm film cameras shoot. This is a longer image than say 16:20, which is 5:4, or 1.25:1.
Compact cameras shoot 5:4, which is also 1.25:1, which is somewhat more square.

The problem is the image has to fit the papers shape. Different size papers are different shapes. It is a common feature in many photo editors to be able to declare a crop shape like 4:5 or 2:3, and then any crop box you can draw will be that shape.

If the image subject is tall and thin, and just won't fit regular paper sizes, I'd suggest printing it for the Full image, but with unused white space on the paper. Like 20x11.4 printed on 20x16 paper. Print shops can do that, if you make it clear what you want, and if they can be bothered to turn off the automation to do it..
Then you (or a framing shop) can cut a 1:75:1 hole in a 16x20 white matt, and put it in a 16x20 frame, with your 1:75 picture behind it. The printed image should not be 20 inches though, it should be at least a couple inches less than the frame, in order to have the white matt all around it. Should look fine and natural. This is what framing shops do.
 
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What software are you using for post processing? Most of them will let you set the crop size as in 16x20 or whatever. Not saying crop it but it will at least show you what would get cropped. You can never tell, you might like the crop. Also depending on the post processing software you can upsize the photo a little bit and gain a little bit of breathing room.

In lightroom read this How to Resize Photos in Lightroom

In Photoshop read this https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1351683

Many people suggest this Upsizing an Image with Minimal Quality Loss | PhotoLesa.com

These might help
 
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tea2085

Senior Member
I did go to Lightroom crop and custom set the aspect ratio to 16x24 and after looking at it I saved and it seems the perfect ratio. BUT, now I have another problem- as I uploaded my photo to nations, I received a message that the pic was poor resolution and may have poor prints. The file info said it was 3648x2081 in size with a horizontal and vertical resolution @240/240. What am I missing? Paul
 
I did go to Lightroom crop and custom set the aspect ratio to 16x24 and after looking at it I saved and it seems the perfect ratio. BUT, now I have another problem- as I uploaded my photo to nations, I received a message that the pic was poor resolution and may have poor prints. The file info said it was 3648x2081 in size with a horizontal and vertical resolution @240/240. What am I missing? Paul

They are saying that to go that big you are not going to get good results. Try some of the upsizing techniques in the links I gave you to see if you can get it better

i don't remember but what camera did you use to shoot the photo?
 

WayneF

Senior Member
3648x2081 is unchanged, meaning that it is not 24x16 shape. And the 240 dpi is still the original value, unchanged. Somehow you did not do anything, your change did not take effect. Your are uploading the original image.

If you upload any image, and tell them to print it X by Y inches, they will. The dpi will be computed according, to do that.

So they are telling you that 2081 pixels divided by 16 inches is 130 dpi. The only way 2081 pixels can print 16 inches is at 2081/16 = 130 dpi. So that's what they will do (and it would crop the long end because its not the same shape), except you seem to say they are refusing it as being resolution too low.
 

tea2085

Senior Member
Don, I have the D3300 and Wayne, 017-5.jpg Here is the photo. Thanks for hanging in- got to go to bed but please help again tomorrow. Paul
 

WayneF

Senior Member
If this image was taken with a D3300, then it should have been 3:2 shape. So the current long shape means it has already been cropped, probably to fit a HDTV screen. But if you still have the original image, maybe you can start over from it, and recover some pixels at top and/or bottom, to make cropping for printing be much easier?

If it was cropped in Lightroom, it has lossless editing, which means all of the pixels are still there, you can simply uncrop it, and change it now. In the Crop tool, just Right click the image, and select Uncrop, and set a new crop for your paper shape.
 
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tea2085

Senior Member
Wayne, just uploaded the original and checked the EXIF- states width 6000 and HT 4000.The horizonal and vertical resolution remained the same (@240). I crop most of my pictures and assumed that cropping removes pixels only because it removes area. Cropping doesn't change a pics DPI though, right. Also when looking at the EXIF I noted it said iso speed---- iso 800. I could swear I had the iso set at 100. Paul
 
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WayneF

Senior Member
Yes, 6000x4000 pixels is the original full 3:2 size of the D3300 cameras images. If it was cropped in Lightroom, you can always undo the crop and start over, and crop as you wish for a current print paper size. Having more pixels around the subject should be a big help to match the paper size. Right click on the image in the Lightroom crop tool, and you can set 4:5, which will be right for 16x20 paper. Then adjust the crop borders to be where you want them.

Dpi... So many ifs and buts. Cropping should not change the dpi value number stored in the JPG image file (which is a meaningless arbitrary number from the camera, which has no clue what size you might wish to print it).
But if a raw image, or if using the Lightroom raw editor on JPG files, dpi will be whatever number you told the Lightroom settings to store at any output.

You said 240 dpi, and I think that is Adobes original default, until we specify something else.
Click that link below the image in the raw editor, where it says sRGB.... ppi, and you can change the dpi number to any other number. This number has NO EFFECT on your image pixels, but that number will be stored in the output JPG file


But what matters is the image size (dimensioned in pixels) and the paper size (dimensioned in inches). Then pixels / inches = pixels per inch, which I call dpi.

So yes, because cropping reduces the pixel dimensions, so it does reduce dpi. Not speaking of the stored dpi number, but instead defined this way:

Image size is 6000x4000. If you tell Lightroom to set dpi to 300 dpi, then it could print 6000 px / 300 dpi = 20 inches size (in that dimension, if it were printed at 300 dpi).

But if you crop it, or resample it, either way to be say 3000x2000 pixels, and set the same 300 dpi, then it will print 3000 px / 300 dpi = 10 inches (if printed at 300 dpi).

Which you can ignore, and tell the photo finisher company you want an 8x12 print. Then they will print it 3000 px / 12 inches = 250 dpi.
If you gave them the original 6000x4000 px image and asked for 8x12, this computes 6000/12 inches = 500 dpi, but they won't do that, 500 dpi being pointless, they will first resample it smaller to an appropriate size. Their equipment probably does 250 dpi.

I don't mean to double talk to you, but this is how it is. Dpi is how the pixels are to be distributed over the paper size. The dpi number stored in the JPG file will not be used by the photo finisher company... if you ask for 8x10, then 8x10 is what you get (your dpi number is necessarily ignored).

Your goal is to be sure you give them enough pixels to allow that to be good quality.
 
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tea2085

Senior Member
Wayne, can't seem to uncrop it so I will start over with the original picture. I have to crop it to remove the hands of mom. I also burred the backgound. Is there a way to do this and retain the resolution? Man, to do post processing you have to be a computer guru, a math wizard, and an Artist. Few people have all those talents and I,m one. I read explanations like yours and I say to myself "will I ever know all that as well as he does". I'm gonna keep trying. Paul
 

WayneF

Senior Member
If it was cropped in a program other than Lightroom, then it's permanent (unless you kept a copy of the original). But if cropped in Lightroom, Undo should be easily possible (in Lightroom). In the LR Crop tool, Right click on the image, and undo is in the menu there. It is called Clear Crop. I am talking Adobe Raw (Photoshop), but it and LR both use the same raw module to do it.

If you crop, you lose pixels, and the image becomes smaller. And 20x16 inch prints have a bigger need than smaller prints, but the original 6000x4000 pixel image is large, and a little cropping should be no big deal. Reducing image size dimensions by 1/3 should be very little issue.

Post processing is always a mystery at first, but we gain experience quickly, and routine things become easy soon. just keep trying things. :)
 

tea2085

Senior Member
Wayne, Mom's hands are about 1/3 of the photo. Can I crop to eliminate them and still have enough resolution to blow it up? Psul
 

WayneF

Senior Member
If you have 2/3 of 6000 pixels left, that's 4000, and 4000/20 inches is 200 dpi. Or if it is the original 3648 pixels, still 182 dpi. That ballpark sounds OK to me. Large prints are viewed from a bit more distance (not directly under our nose), and don't have to be as much resolution as smaller prints.
 
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