Post Processing -- Crop Size?

OK, I have been following the "Print Size" thread and then started playing around to see what cropping would do for sizes for printing and display. In Capture NX-D, cropping has a few options of size ratios ie 16:9, 4:3, 6:6 etc. and free cropping. Now for the question. Some of my pictures work well with the ratios, but some just look better "Free Cropped". For web display, it's not too bad. Printing is another problem. 5:7 ratio works for a 10x14, but may be too much crop for the width or not enough for the height. How do the pros do their cropping for printing/framing? Work arounds, etc. Using Photo Labs....

Thanks

What I posted seems like a "duh", type question (wife interrupted while trying to get my thoughts together. Ha!). I guess what I am looking for is what is your ratio of "Free Cropping" vs trying to stick with the common ratios?

For printing I can specify the size in Photoshop and the crop will show on the screen and I can move the crop box around on the photo till I get what I want. For the web it doesn't really matter

cwgrizz said:

OK, I have been following the "Print Size" thread and then started playing around to see what cropping would do for sizes for printing and display. In Capture NX-D, cropping has a few options of size ratios ie 16:9, 4:3, 6:6 etc. and free cropping. Now for the question. Some of my pictures work well with the ratios, but some just look better "Free Cropped". For web display, it's not too bad. Printing is another problem. 5:7 ratio works for a 10x14, but may be too much crop for the width or not enough for the height. How do the pros do their cropping for printing/framing? Work arounds, etc. Using Photo Labs....

Thanks

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That is just how it is.

For display on a video monitor, it can be any rectangular shape you please. Monitors simply show the pixel dimensions, pixel for pixel.

If you are going to print on paper, you have to be aware of the paper shape. You can crop to match it. You can print on larger paper and then trim it to an odd size. Or leave white borders, etc. But ... if you think about sizing the horizontal and vertical dimensions differently to force the fit, you cause distortion in the image (for example, circles wont be round, etc).

It's the same problem as trying to fit an unfolded/unrolled sheet of paper into a box, like a shoe box. You are either going to have to trim the paper, or choose the right box size.

If for example, shooting portraits for an 8x10 frame, it is good to plan for this cropping while shooting (plan on paper in the camera). A common way is to leave a little extra space around the subject, so you can crop it for 4x6, or 5x7, or 8x10, whatever... Plan to have a little extra to crop, for any size, when size is decided. Lots of megapixels make this be trivial.

Since I always crop with an eye toward printing I am very selective about my aspect ratio. Just as some photos need to be printed large, some need to be square or trimmed to a different ratio than the standard 2x3. You need to work with the photo to see what shows off it's key elements best and then crop accordingly. i always look at several aspect ratios before settling on a final version. Many photos that I feel I will print go into separate file and 3 or 4 months from now I will revisit them and see if I still like it the way it is. Then,and only then, will i print the photo.

Thanks for your responses. Well you have all stated what I really knew as the obvious. Ha! Capture NX-D allows for crop of various ratios including free cropping and it can be moved around (I assume similar to Photoshop). Portrait shots and similar will almost always be suitable for common ratio cropping. Landscapes can sometimes be the problem children for me. They are the types of shots that I tend to want to "Free Crop", but then printing is the fly in the ointment. Printing on larger paper is the logical solution leaving white borders----then framing using mats trying to get a symmetrically pleasing display, I guess. Ha!

Will Photo Labs print with the white borders equally (top and bottom, left and right) or do they tend to want to print crowding left-top sides? I sure this is also another obvious question, but inquiring minds want to know. Ha!

cwgrizz said:

Will Photo Labs print with the white borders equally (top and bottom, left and right) or do they tend to want to print crowding left-top sides? I sure this is also another obvious question, but inquiring minds want to know. Ha!

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I'd say no, but if a few might, at least it would take very special arrangements. In general, what happens if you send an oddly shaped image for the paper size you request, they print it so one side fills, and the other dimension cannot fit evenly. There's two way to do that.

The norm is that they will automatically fill one side and let the other side overfill, it runs over (paper crops it), so there's no white space. The paper is filled, you get the size print you requested, but the image is cropped, probably in an unexpected way (you surely would have cropped it yourself if you expected it).

There are some (mpix.com is my experience) that you can specify (I forget their words for it, something like exact size) so that the other dimension fits and fills, and then one side underfills, leaving some white space along that side that you can trim yourself later. This gives you your full frame (that you sent) without any cropping.

Printing at home, your print menu probably does easily offer the option to center a smaller print, etc. And I suppose it is not impossible that theirs might too, but surely it will take some very special arrangements, special handling. It is not in my experience.

It has always seemed convenient to me to accept the realities though, and conform.

One thing that I learnt while printing drawings to a particular scale is to
. tailor the image to the paper size, in this case crop it so that the borders are even.
. If you want the image to be aligned with borders of particular dimensions, then introduce small crosses or angle marks at four corners. That way even if the printer fits the image to size, the edge marks will give you the desired border.

As others have stated, if the aim is to print using standard paper sizes, mentally frame the image for that ratio while shooting. Some screens come with various crop marks - 3:2, 5:4, 16:9 etc, so that you can visualize the cropped area, most don't. If you are very particular about standard print sizes, and your camera is supported by third party focusing screen makers, get a custom screen with desired crop marks.
Grid Lines Crop Guides - KatzEye Optics

I have learned to shoot a little looser so I will have room to crop to whatever size I need. The D7100 allows me to have that freedom since it has the 24.1 MP sensor.

Again, Thanks for your responses. The thread in Photo Feedback http://nikonites.com/photo-feedback/25889-backyard-view.html#post362160 is what prompted my thoughts/questions on this. The pics in that thread, I probably wouldn't print, but they are an example of something to use to sort this out.

Don Kuykendall said:

I have learned to shoot a little looser so I will have room to crop to whatever size I need. The D7100 allows me to have that freedom since it has the 24.1 MP sensor.

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I will have to try to remember this. The D5300 has 24+MP also, so I should be good for playing. Ha!

cwgrizz said:

I will have to try to remember this. The D5300 has 24+MP also, so I should be good for playing. Ha!

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And so does my D3300!

In fact most of my "Macro" shots with kit lense are cropped to 800x800 pixels to show the bugs and spiders.

I don't do a lot of printing yet, but Id figure it would make sense to free-crop your image and center it on 'canvas size' which conformed to a standard print dimension so the printer doesn't arbitrarily chop off parts of your image.