Can you see the difference?

gqtuazon

Gear Head
I was slightly bored today and I decided to perform a test using my D800E, Nikon 300mm f4 mounted on my Gitzo GT3531S and Arca Swiss Z1 ballhead and a Nikon SB 800 mounted on the hot shoe. The test was to see how well my tripod and ball head handles slow shutter speeds and the effects of vibration using 1/30 shutter speed.




Posted below are two images cropped at 100% and are posted side by side. Both images have the same exif data but the other one is sharper (to my eye). Are there any difference? Aside from the white balance, can you tell why they are different and what could be the reason behind it?

 

Rick M

Senior Member
To me the one on the right is significantly sharper. How was the shutter actuated and were these just shot one after another? How was the target supported?
 

Whiskeyman

Senior Member
I see a difference in the sharpness; the image on the right side is definitely sharper.

My question echoes Rick's; how was the shutter actuated?

I believe that I recently read an Thom Hogan article about VR and he mentions the variability in tripod head stability and the effect on VR. Does that lens have VR?
 

Nikkon

Senior Member
Like the others said, the image on the right is definitely sharper. Did they have the same focus or did you refocus after 1 shot?
 

gqtuazon

Gear Head
All great questions.

The target was taped on the wall. Focus was set manually via live view on both images.



This lens does not have VR and if it does, I would normally turn it off.

Good question on the shutter actuation. The image on the left was actuated using my finger. The image on the right, a remote control was used.
 

Rick M

Senior Member
I hate to point fingers, but I think the finger did it. Was the focus left alone between shots?, or was it re-focused, that could be it also.
 

Nikkon

Senior Member
Must be the slight movement by finger actuation. To be honest, if I shoot 2 pictures one fingered and one remotely triggered, and the remote triggered was a lot sharper, I would conclude that it must have been the trigger finger. Or did you just want to test us? :)
 
Last edited:

Whiskeyman

Senior Member
Is the test to determine which tripod head is more stable? If so, the means of actuation needs to be the same for each test exposure. In fact, as many variables as possible need to be factored out of the test. In addition, you should take several exposures using each head, post them randomly without identifying them by other than a number, and choose sharp or not sharp blindly.

​WM
 

gqtuazon

Gear Head
I hate to point fingers, but I think the finger did it. Was the focus left alone between shots?, or was it re-focused, that could be it also.

Focus was left alone.

The major factor that made the second sharper is the Mirror-up (Mup) feature and a 3 second delay in between actuation. Finger actuated and remote actuated have similar slight blurriness to the output image which is caused by the mirror slap and the vibration that it caused.

Using the Mup and the 3 seconds delay allowed any vibration to dissipate. If you notice the blueish stress ball that I mounted in between the lens and lens foot to reduce the vibration, and provide some type of support to the lens body.

My main purpose is to show the importance of using Mup when using slow shutter speeds especially when shooting macro or long exposures at night.
 

WayneF

Senior Member
1/30 second shutter with a long lens is a known problem. :) A common cure for the finger shaking the camera is to use the self timer, maybe 2 or 5 seconds. Which is enough time to get your finger off of it, and to let the shaking die away.

Also (not applicable to Live View), some models have an option to add one or more seconds of delay, after the mirror comes up, but before the shutter activates, same reason, to let the mirror shake die down.
 

gqtuazon

Gear Head
1/30 second shutter with a long lens is a known problem. :) A common cure for the finger shaking the camera is to use the self timer, maybe 2 or 5 seconds. Which is enough time to get your finger off of it, and to let the shaking die away.

Also (not applicable to Live View), some models have an option to add one or more seconds of delay, after the mirror comes up, but before the shutter activates, same reason, to let the mirror shake die down.

Wayne I agree that the timer is also another feature that we all can use to eliminate any possibilities that can introduce or make the images blurry.

Other good link regarding best practices are posted below link.

On Tripod Technique

Neil Rothschild have done a lot of these tests and I am just now performing the test and see if I could replicate what his results were. You can see some of the other test that he posted using other tripods, ballheads and other lens support equipment.

Tripod Tests Photo Gallery by Neil Rothschild at pbase.com
 

Bill16

Senior Member
Maybe I'm missing something, but in this experiment you put that it was testing your tripod and ball head. So what were your conclusions in relation to your tripod and ball head?

Not that I could afford your tripod setup, but I'm still interested in what help this high dollar tripod setup had. And was wondering if you would be able to compare the results to a lesser brand but still a good quality tripod? :D
I was slightly bored today and I decided to perform a test using my D800E, Nikon 300mm f4 mounted on my Gitzo GT3531S and Arca Swiss Z1 ballhead and a Nikon SB 800 mounted on the hot shoe. The test was to see how well my tripod and ball head handles slow shutter speeds and the effects of vibration using 1/30 shutter speed.




Posted below are two images cropped at 100% and are posted side by side. Both images have the same exif data but the other one is sharper (to my eye). Are there any difference? Aside from the white balance, can you tell why they are different and what could be the reason behind it?

 

Nikkon

Senior Member
I don't understand this thread. If I want to test my tripod, wether I am bored or not, I would test it under the same circumstances and not one triggered with my finger and the other by remote control.
Rebus sic stantibus.
 

WayneF

Senior Member
Not that I could afford your tripod setup, but I'm still interested in what help this high dollar tripod setup had. And was wondering if you would be able to compare the results to a lesser brand but still a good quality tripod? :D


No matter how expensive or how study and rigid the tripod, any of them will vibrate and jiggle when tapped. At the low end, they jiggle in the breeze, or at your footsteps on the ground, tapping not necessary.

If you ever used an astronomical telescope (magnifies view and jiggle), this becomes very obvious, even though the mount may seem very substantial. If you ever put a camera on that telescope, it can seem an impossible problem.
 

Rick M

Senior Member
Focus was left alone.

The major factor that made the second sharper is the Mirror-up (Mup) feature and a 3 second delay in between actuation. Finger actuated and remote actuated have similar slight blurriness to the output image which is caused by the mirror slap and the vibration that it caused.

Using the Mup and the 3 seconds delay allowed any vibration to dissipate. If you notice the blueish stress ball that I mounted in between the lens and lens foot to reduce the vibration, and provide some type of support to the lens body.

My main purpose is to show the importance of using Mup when using slow shutter speeds especially when shooting macro or long exposures at night.

You didn't tell us this was a trick question :)
 

Bill16

Senior Member
Oh I understood the vibration being a huge issue. :) I was just curious about how the tripod used helped reduce the vibrations and if a similar tripod but a bit more affordable would give similar results. Are the materials that are used in the making of the tripod the main factor in helping reduce the vibrations? Or is it mostly the brand's tripod design that helps achieve the best results?
Is rigidity the best solution to reduce vibration? Or is dampening the vibration using weight centered under the tripod and carbon fiber the best solution? :)
No matter how expensive or how study and rigid the tripod, any of them will vibrate and jiggle when tapped. At the low end, they jiggle in the breeze, or at your footsteps on the ground, tapping not necessary.

If you ever used an astronomical telescope (magnifies view and jiggle), this becomes very obvious, even though the mount may seem very substantial. If you ever put a camera on that telescope, it can seem an impossible problem.
 

Geoffc

Senior Member
Glenn I'm looking on an ipad with Retina display. The difference is massive to the point I thought the left image was at a much smaller pixel size. It's funny that you posted this as I took some shots with my D800 and 70-200 2.8 the other day on a tripod and I could see the poor quality due to no MUP or cable release.
 

WayneF

Senior Member
Oh I understood the vibration being a huge issue. :) I was just curious about how the tripod used helped reduce the vibrations and if a similar tripod but a bit more affordable would give similar results. Are the materials that are used in the making of the tripod the main factor in helping reduce the vibrations? Or is it mostly the brand's tripod design that helps achieve the best results?
Is rigidity the best solution to reduce vibration? Or is dampening the vibration using weight centered under the tripod and carbon fiber the best solution? :)

Like all things, there are many opinions. :) Some go so far to say a poor cheap tripod is worse than no tripod at all. I frankly cannot imagine that, any reasonable help is certainly some help. But more sturdy includes larger diameter legs, for example 1.25 inch diameter instead of 1.0 inch diameter (its in mm today). Which becomes heavy to carry of course. I don't think carbon fiber is more sturdy, but it is lighter, and does help to damp the vibration. Wood tripods used to be popular because their damping was similar, but quite heavy, not very portable.

Vibration can include several things. Touch it with your finger, or the wind, or the actual camera mirror slapping up open. Delaying a few seconds to settle down first helps several things, but not the wind for example. The sturdier the tripod, the faster it settles down, and the less the wind shakes it. This is seen at higher magnifications, and over longer times of course.

Some of the camera models have mirror lockup, which today works so that the first shutter button opens the mirror, and the next one takes the picture, and closes the mirror. No mirror vibration. Live View mode would be similar, in that mirror opens early.

Some models have few seconds delay after mirror opens and before the shutter, which is about the same thing (except for the timing of the shutter). Not applicable to Live View mode, which already does it.

The camera self timer gives you time to get your finger off of it, and let it settle down. This ought to be used a lot (for those slow shutter or long focal length situations that give jiggle problems).

To have a better idea - Put your camera on the tripod, and select Live View mode, and then magnify the view finder to something like 1:1 size, actual pixels. I am thinking stars at night, but subject could be anything. Then reach up and touch it, as if to focus it. At high magnifications (actual view), it makes focus about impossible, because it is bouncing around too much to see if it is in focus or not. That would not be a stable situation. The same thing happens to your telephoto pictures.
 
Top