Please Advise on pricing photos - buyer contacted me for photos I took of him

SHAkers718

Senior Member
I responded to an invitation by the Utah Office of Tourism to attend an event for free yesterday. It was at the Utah Olympic Park where they had a performance by their Olympians in training - The Flying Aces All-Stars (really amazing, if you ever get the chance I recommend it). A local camera store was teamed up and offering lens rentals for half off for the weekend. Well, I have a brand new D500 and rented the 80-400mm (FX) lens, just to challenge myself and see what I could come up with. One of the athletes has seen my photos - he is in some of them, and has contacted me through my Instagram email and with his official email has asked me what it would take for him to have some photos for personal use for his family as well as promotional/professional use (I can't remember the terms he used). I have launched a photography FB page, gotten myself a sales tax and business license because I'm going to have a booth in an upcoming, local Arts Festival. I know what I'm going to charge on my inventory for the festival, but what would seem reasonable and fair to both of us to charge for photo I've already taken of this nature. It seems clear he intends to pay something for it. I have to say, it was a blast working with the D500! I learned a lot that I would do differently next time.

I understand this is tough to give advice on, but I remember a while back someone had sold a photo to a small magazine that he took of an airplane for $200 I believe and said it felt like a win/win. Wondering what you all think if I put some of the pictures that the freestyle skier is in on a thumb drive and sold it to him for $50? I would keep the copyright. Is there a link for a quick and simple contract? This has caught me off guard, I've spent all summer focused on my Arts Festival booth, which is definitely not sports action. I've just been taking baby steps as I'm contemplating trying to earn back some of the money I've invested in NAS.

I'm not going to attach the photos here because when I down-sized them they didn't look very good, but here's a link to my FB page.

https://www.facebook.com/ShariAkersPhotography/?fref=ts

Thanks for taking a look. And sorry if some of these questions have been asked and answered ad infinitum before.
 
Several of these on a thumb drive would be more fair for him than you. I looked at the photos an they are very good. Especially if he is going to use these professionally you really should charge a decent price.
 

SHAkers718

Senior Member
Several of these on a thumb drive would be more fair for him than you. I looked at the photos an they are very good. Especially if he is going to use these professionally you really should charge a decent price.


Thank you [MENTION=6277]Don Kuykendall[/MENTION]. I appreciate the response and the feedback. There's an altruistic part of me that worries about the young, starving, struggling athlete but also I realize if he hired a pro to come sit and take photos on an hourly basis and then get a final product to him, it could cost a fortune. This feels so new to me and out of my league kinda stuff. I'm definitely flattered/humbled and also having a ton of fun with photography. I've also spent a lot of time and money, so there's that. It's hard to sort through the thought process.

What would you venture would be a decent price? Maybe sell him one or two photos (or how many he chooses) in print format?
 
Thank you @Don Kuykendall. I appreciate the response and the feedback. There's an altruistic part of me that worries about the young, starving, struggling athlete but also I realize if he hired a pro to come sit and take photos on an hourly basis and then get a final product to him, it could cost a fortune. This feels so new to me and out of my league kinda stuff. I'm definitely flattered/humbled and also having a ton of fun with photography. I've also spent a lot of time and money, so there's that. It's hard to sort through the thought process.

What would you venture would be a decent price? Maybe sell him one or two photos (or how many he chooses) in print format?


What did you pay for the lens rental?
 

SHAkers718

Senior Member
What did you pay for the lens rental?

It was 1/2 off for the entire weekend since they are closed Sundays and at that rate it only came to $20 but otherwise would have set me back $40. I have answered his email only to ask for more specifics about whether he was looking for prints or digital file. In reading his email to me again it appears he has a professional sponsor because his signature line included a logo and website for company. I wonder if they composed the email. He seems savvy enough to realize he can't help himself to a IG or FB photo. He also asked how I would like my photo credit to appear which tells me this isn't just something for parents to hang on the wall. If a professional business is going to use it to promote him and promote their product, that sort of changes things don't you think?
 
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It was 1/2 off for the entire weekend since they are closed Sundays and at that rate it only came to $20 but otherwise would have set me back $40. I have answered his email only to ask for more specifics about whether he was looking for prints or digital file. In reading his email to me again it appears he has a professional sponsor because his signature line included a logo and website for company. I wonder if they composed the email. He seems savvy enough to realize he can't help himself to a IG or FB photo. He also asked how I would like my photo credit to appear which tells me this isn't just something for parents to hang on the wall. If a professional business is going to use it to promote him and promote their product, that sort of changes things don't you think?


He gets paid to do what he does. He has expenses, but remember you have expenses also. Just how much do you have invested in camera gear? Rhetorical question there. You equipment, your knowledge of photography and you being in the right place at the right time is worth something. Don't give you work away. Make it worth your time and effort. I have two kinds of photography. 1. Things I shoot out of passion like my old factory work, I so that out of love for the project. That is free for the project. I eventually will sell a coffee table book and it will not be free. I shoot other things for myself and if people want copies I sell them and they are not free. I do make a little money on those.
 

csgaraglino

Senior Member
Hello SHAkers718,

First you find yourself in the position that EVERY photographer winds up at at some point in their career, so rest assured there is a solution.

While I and most anyone on the internet can not speak to actual pricing for you directly, because we don't know your experience level, your goals as a photographer or your local market. What I can do is tell you what I have done.

Any and all business face the same question - "What do I charge?"

You have two parts to your question. Personal Use & Commercial Use. I'll address commercial first.

For me I looked at my core services: Products, Action Sports & Real Estate - these are my bread & butter and each discipline pays differently.

Then I looked at my local market and found out that my competitors were charging. And when I say "competitors" I mean the professionals or semi-professionals running some kind of business - not the hobbyist looking to make a buck. I clipped the top 10% and the bottom 10% and I soon saw an actual average range that folks were charging in each discipline in my area.

I then looked at my time involved (travel, shooting, editing) and my equipment use and any additional overhead you I have. (if you have an office - rent & electric any training, etc).

Now that I have my "cost" of doing business and what the local market is willing to pay, the next question is "HOW will the image be used"?
In most cases, my work is used commercially and I don't generally shoot people for personal use, but it's really the same either way.

I have two price points: Non-Exclusive and Exclusive, and this really comes down to who is going to OWN the Copyright when the job is over. Most of my work is Non-Exclusive, but I have several clients that want exclusive control and ownership of the images and they pay for it.

I now have everything I need to set my business pricing for all my core services. It sounds complicated - but once you get into it - it's really not.


On to your question: There is those times when (like you) I am out at a local event, say the Hot Air Balloon Glow we have it every year and on my own time shooting when someone comes up and says "Wow, that's cool, how much?"

I know my worth and my core costs (see above) and this is always in the back of my head. The very next thing out of my mouth is "That depends, how are you going to use my photo?" Almost always the answer will fit into to categories, regardless if their a business or the Dad of the kid you just shot.

1) Personal use: Online socially or to print and hang on the wall somewhere.
Here I will generally give them a low-res copy (1280 longest side at 72dpi) for free with a discrete watermark (c) WidowCreekPhotography.com at the bottom. I look at this as advertising and getting my name in front of people that I may not have been able to reach normally. I have booked many jobs form these kinds of images on Facebook alone.

2) Commercially: To promote themselves (person or business) products or services. Use on brochures, website, tv commercials, magazines, etc...
This also includes the "personal use person" that does NOT want my watermark on the image.
So for commercial, I look at my core costs as outlined above and start there. I then (sometimes, a lot of times) will discount for some of the following reasons.
1. Can I turn them into a paying client in the future?
2. My time was minimal (I was already here)
3. Typically it's only one or two images.

I know this sounds like a lot - and well it kind of is, but once you put it into practice, it becomes second nature and answering the question on the fly becomes much easier!
 

Lawrence

Senior Member
If you are giving him fully processed high res digitals you need to be charging at least $50.00 per image as this will allow him free future use of any description and you lose total control. I would prefer to see you charge $100.00 per digital image. Hell he has sponsors and is a professional so money should not be an image. probably pays 20 times that for a set of skis.

If he just wants them for FB and personal use then low res watermarked images to the value of say $10.00 each which you can put aside towards buying your own lens instead of having to hire one.

Jealous of that D500 - that I am!
 

csgaraglino

Senior Member
Hell he has sponsors and is a professional so money should not be an image. probably pays 20 times that for a set of skis.

Greed - the death of a photographer! It should be a movie. Shakers718 I totally disagree with Lawrence - you'll lose more clients and opportunities form greed than anything else in this business.

Lawrence, as an ex-professional "sponsored" downhill mountain biker (1991-97)- I can tell you there are two kinds of of sponsored athletes. Those with Factory rides and those without! He is the latter - as factory athletes have everything provided for them and he would not be asking for photos. Non-Factory athletes typically only get entry fees and some accommodations taken care of, and most all gear - sponsors dependent. What he doesn't get in sponsorship, he pays for out of his pocket. Add the fact that he's an Olympic Athlete makes it even more financially difficult because he is more than likely living away form home at a facility for training and has little time to work - if at all! How do I know this you ask - because I live in Colorado Springs the home of the US Olympic Training Center and I am friends, work, shoot and even play with Olympic Athletes just like Shaker718 is talking about.

Shaker718 rented the lens and went to this event on his own without the intention of making money - anything he gets form this opportunity is gravy! better a long term client (he has other friends & sponsors) than a one off shot for a hundred bucks - really, your killing me!

Shaker718 - here is something else to think about. A couple of your photos are awesome for Stock Photography. Think about a trade. A few photos for a Model Release? I have photos & videos on Pond5 all with Model Releases and I collect a descent check each month for doing nothing. Photos with Model Release do very well in the stock world, just a thought.

NORBA National Champion 1997
IMG_1586.jpg
 
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Lawrence

Senior Member
Greed - the death of a photographer! It should be a movie. Shakers718 I totally disagree with Lawrence - you'll lose more clients and opportunities form greed than anything else in this business.

Lawrence, as an ex-professional "sponsored" downhill mountain biker (1991-97)- I can tell you there are two kinds of of sponsored athletes. Those with Factory rides and those without! He is the latter - as factory athletes have everything provided for them and he would not be asking for photos. Non-Factory athletes typically only get entry fees and some accommodations taken care of, and most all gear - sponsors dependent. What he doesn't get in sponsorship, he pays for out of his pocket. Add the fact that he's an Olympic Athlete makes it even more financially difficult because he is more than likely living away form home at a facility for training and has little time to work - if at all! How do I know this you ask - because I live in Colorado Springs the home of the US Olympic Training Center and I am friends, work, shoot and even play with Olympic Athletes just like Shaker718 is talking about.

Shaker718 rented the lens and went to this event on his own without the intention of making money - anything he gets form this opportunity is gravy! better a long term client (he has other friends & sponsors) than a one off shot for a hundred bucks - really, your killing me!

Shaker718 - here is something else to think about. A couple of your photos are awesome for Stock Photography. Think about a trade. A few photos for a Model Release? I have photos & videos on Pond5 all with Model Releases and I collect a descent check each month for doing nothing. Photos with Model Release do very well in the stock world, just a thought.

NORBA National Champion 1997
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Sorry didn't mean to kill you and didn't mean to come across as greedy.

My thoughts are that giving stuff away undermines the entire industry of photographers.
But hey its his gig and he asked so I gave my $0.02's worth - but as I deal in New Zealand dollars feel free to take the advice as worthless.

Be very interested to know what a decent check is from stock photos. From what I hear competition is tough and payouts small -
 

csgaraglino

Senior Member
My thoughts are that giving stuff away undermines the entire industry of photographers.
But hey its his gig and he asked so I gave my $0.02's worth - but as I deal in New Zealand dollars feel free to take the advice as worthless.

It's not about giving something away for free, it's about paying for marketing. Adding a watermark to a low-res image and having that blasted on Social Media is marketing. FB charges between $20-60/day to do the same thing for you.

Be very interested to know what a decent check is from stock photos. From what I hear competition is tough and payouts small -

Yes competition is tough - every phonetographer out there is trying to do the same thing. However if you look at your discipline and look at what's posting and what's selling - just do something a "little" different or even better. It's the same whether it's a photo, video or the next widget on the shelves of Best Buy.

But with little effort - you can take these "images & clips" during these non-paid gigs that you think are a fit, get a model release right then and there. When you get home, make a few adjustments, post it and keyword it - your done.

After a couple of years doing this - and you build a nice library on a couple stock sites, getting a descent check each months (for me) between $350 and $400 is not bad for not doing to much. Remember, these clips are likely to sit on a archive hard drive in a closet somewhere anyway.
 
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