F-Stoppers - Why I Can't Stand the Photographer Community

sonicbuffalo_RIP

Senior Member
This is really a good article. It's a good read even if it is an advertisement of sorts. It has some great suggestions and I think most of it applies to this community. I think most of us on this website follow the admonitions of what the author is saying. Check it out:

Read here
 

J-see

Senior Member
I wouldn't know if it applies here. I can't say I read many negative comments when people post images. Some like it and those that don't, don't like it.

Only when photos are posted for critique or suggestions, people will point out what they would do different or what they dislike. Personally I'd prefer that too.

Telling someone their shot is nice only makes them feel good. Telling them what parts suck makes them get better. But critique is something one should ask.
 

sonicbuffalo_RIP

Senior Member
I wouldn't know if it applies here. I can't say I read many negative comments when people post images. Some like it and those that don't, don't like it.

Only when photos are posted for critique or suggestions, people will point out what they would do different or what they dislike. Personally I'd prefer that too.

Telling someone their shot is nice only makes them feel good. Telling them what parts suck makes them get better. But critique is something one should ask.

If this thread makes you think before you critique, then it will be worth it. The article didn't say not to critique...it's more about "how" to critique in a positive way. At least that's what I gathered from it.
 

TedG954

Senior Member
Chris, I understand your point, and I agree.

A critique is very difficult for me..... on both sides of the fence. I consider my type of photography as a creative art. Not necessary good art, but none-the-less, art to me. I'm not producing for anyone except myself. It's my hobby. That's all; a hobby. Do I want others to like my work? Of course. But I know my tastes are quite different from others and what I like doesn't necessarily appeal to others. I'm not being commissioned, so I don't solicit critiques.

Enough about me.

As far as another photographers' work is concerned, I tend to shy away from the "forum-posted" appraisal. Only if I feel close enough to the artist, or they specifically ask for an opinion, will I even think about telling them "how I'd do it". When I do have a suggestion, I send it in a Private Message. I am very limited in my technical knowledge and my suggestions are generally esthetic.

As we have all seen at one time or another, people can be very touchy about their work. If my opinion may, in any way, take away from the artist's enjoyment of his/her work, I keep my mouth shut. So, as you suggested, I think before offering any thing resembling a "critique".
 

AC016

Senior Member
I read the article and do like what he said. He has some good points and i could not agree with him more. The internet can be a brutal place. I think a lot of it has to do with people who feel all to comfortable behind a keyboard. These same people would most likely not voice the same words in front of other people.

With that being said, this forum is rather tame compared to the Fuji forum i sometimes frequent. It is really brutal over there, with a lot of photography snobs who think they are God's gift to photography. But as i said before, it is so easy to type words out.

Yes, you do have to develop some thick skin. Furthermore, at times, you just have to choose to ignore people or just look from the outside in at times.

Seeing that photography is very web centric nowadays, it is hard to avoid the masses. You put your photo on a website, that website can be viewed by hundreds of millions of people and only a very tiny percentage have any clue about photography. This is what we face, a world were anyone can post up their "opinion", no matter what and there are some people out there who just get off on being negative and critical.

As he says, take every critique for what it is. In the end, you will know which ones are genuine and which ones are just windups.
 
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J-see

Senior Member
If this thread makes you think before you critique, then it will be worth it. The article didn't say not to critique...it's more about "how" to critique in a positive way. At least that's what I gathered from it.

I know, artists and bleeding hearts and such. ;)

I personally won't say that sh*t s*cks but will mention what I think. It can be said to the point, or bluntly. There's no reason to wrap critique as if we just ran over their dog and now need to find a good way to tell without them going into cardiac arrest. We're grown people and we know very well we ain't MoMa material. ;)
 

mikew_RIP

Senior Member
I know, artists and bleeding hearts and such. ;)

I personally won't say that sh*t s*cks but will mention what I think. It can be said to the point, or bluntly. There's no reason to wrap critique as if we just ran over their dog and now need to find a good way to tell without them going into cardiac arrest. We're grown people and we know very well we ain't MoMa material. ;)

It had to happen at some stage :D i disagree with you i think critique should be done tactfully and intelligently or not at all,its like taking a member of staff for an appraisal you never jump in and hit them with there bad points,it immediately creates a bad feeling,you always start with there strong points and gently take the conversation into there poor performance areas,this is the same with pictures find the strengths mention them and then move into the other areas.
 

J-see

Senior Member
It had to happen at some stage :D i disagree with you i think critique should be done tactfully and intelligently or not at all,its like taking a member of staff for an appraisal you never jump in and hit them with there bad points,it immediately creates a bad feeling,you always start with there strong points and gently take the conversation into there poor performance areas,this is the same with pictures find the strengths mention them and then move into the other areas.

That's how they raise children Mike, not adults. ;)

Personally I try to be as tactful as possible for me but if anyone critiques some of mine, I rather have them say it as is than wrap something up as if a birthday present.
 
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Krs_2007

Senior Member
This thread is like most critiques I see on sites and will end up in the same place, down the toilet.

Critique is not about negative criticism, but constructive criticism. The article is a good read and very true, if you have all of the photog snobs out there bashing newbies then you will never grow the art. If I ask for it then provide, if I dont ask then keep your opinion to yourself is basically what should take place.

Like this site, some feel the "Like" button may be overused. I use to acknowledge the person and their post/photo, if I feel it deserves a comment like "Thats a wonderful photo" then I will post that. But I refuse to tear apart someones photo when they dont ask for it.

This site has a critique section and I would recommend that no one use it unless you know the personalities on the site. Sometimes we are not all eloquent in our responses and they can be construed in a way that the person is being negative. This goes for any site that I have ever been on.

I'm on one site, other than introduction I have never commented on anything else. They can be way too much for a new person with a camera but yet they get the most new owners than any other site I see. There are some very talented artist on that site and some are extremely useful in their responses and some are just being azz'es.
 

rocketman122

Senior Member
I like fstoppers. but I didnt read the article fully but I understood the point. read the comments here and then understood it fully.

I have a problem when people (amateurs/hobbyists/enthusiast) posts stuff to boast and the work sucks ass. its not jealousy, its the problem that people show off that the pictures are so great when they are just ok. the other problem is others give good feedback or like it because many people wont say MEH. its out of common courtesy and giving the person the illusion the work is better than it is. thats just lying to the person. Id rather be harsh and say it like it is then to kiss ass and say good job. thumbs up. I criticized a few pictures here. I didnt round off the corner but I wasnt a douche about it. I said it as it is with a softish tone.

see this here
Your Work Sucks and That is Okay, Nobody Tells This to Beginners

this is the truth. when I started I thought I was great, I got my exposure right, I shot trying to copy other photographers and it never had the "polish" of a pros work. I can name a few here who showed pictured and their images lack "polish". everyone does it at first. they think theyre great, they get feedback from friends family that tell them good job (like on the social websites) but theyre all being a bit fake. when I say "polish" it can even be seen in the most simple photo. the photographer will be aware of the subject, whats behind and in front and use those elements as well as getting an aesthetically pleasing image. most wont understand what im talking about. not to boast but when you get to a high level you can quickly assess what a good image is. its like a chef who makes a new dish and for most people it would be amzing, but not to the chef. he knows its missing that special "polish" to make his work stand out. yes I say "polish a lot because it has that extra something that makes it a higher level than most would see.

now, I know this is harsh but I dont care from amateur/hobbyist/enthusiast criticism. why? because if you dont shoot weddings for a living, you can not tell me how my work needs correcting. and even those that shoot weddings, I wont even accept their criticism. I will have to see 5-10 images from your portfolio to tell me what level you are at. its all about the small details. cutting hands, too much ceiling in the picture, breaking the nose from the face border, lighting, perspective, and tons more things for me to give you the honor to criticize my work. I say practice what you preach. show me what you can do and I will be all ears. show me you know selective focus, show me you understand about portraits, show me you know about forced perspective, show me you know exaggerated perspective, show me you know how to blend ambient light with flash and so on.. today there are very few people I will listen to for criticism. 1 is my best friend who is elite in every way. I photographed his weddings years back and I helped influence him to get into it and hes just a photography psycho. I think he would give up his wife and children before giving up photography. to me a person whos elite who understand technical, artistic and know how to get his vision in an image. someone who understands lighting and color. not many know all these aspects well.
 
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Nero

Senior Member
It's easy to criticize when you're on the internet, and not just in terms of photography. I've been thinking the same things that were mentioned in this article for a while now and so I will always tip my hat to a professional that comes out and says this. If you're going to tear down someone's image, it reflects poorly on you and makes it look like you're trying a bit too hard to be negative which then lowers your credibility. And then there's the effects it can have on the person who took the image. If you're really trying to discourage people from being photographers, that says a lot more about you than you realize.
 

J-see

Senior Member
Correct me if I'm wrong but I can't remember anyone posting a shot for critique here and being ripped apart by others.

This place is as nice as can be on the internet. Sure we disagree and sure we can be less than friendly in some remarks but even that is usually of such a nature, you could call it civilized.
 

Nero

Senior Member
Correct me if I'm wrong but I can't remember anyone posting a shot for critique here and being ripped apart by others.

This place is as nice as can be on the internet. Sure we disagree and sure we can be less than friendly in some remarks but even that is usually of such a nature, you could call it civilized.
I think we all agree this site has been an exception to what we're saying. Aside from the occasional troll (which affects every site in existence) this place hasn't had any issues with bad criticism. We've had some bad amateurs but that's not the fault of people here.
 

rocketman122

Senior Member
Correct me if I'm wrong but I can't remember anyone posting a shot for critique here and being ripped apart by others.

This place is as nice as can be on the internet. Sure we disagree and sure we can be less than friendly in some remarks but even that is usually of such a nature, you could call it civilized.

yes, I was so surprised when I got her and saw the tons of LIKES everyone gave one another. I was like wth..but its addictive. it helps to spread a good positive vibe.
 

rocketman122

Senior Member
It's easy to criticize when you're on the internet, and not just in terms of photography. I've been thinking the same things that were mentioned in this article for a while now and so I will always tip my hat to a professional that comes out and says this. If you're going to tear down someone's image, it reflects poorly on you and makes it look like you're trying a bit too hard to be negative which then lowers your credibility. And then there's the effects it can have on the person who took the image. If you're really trying to discourage people from being photographers, that says a lot more about you than you realize.

if youre going to be a douche about it then thats wrong but you can say, its ok but not my taste. that would be fine. or even point out why you think its off. what you say will also tell me your expertise. the americans are known for this when they do job reviews for raises. they start with a positive comment, then a negative, then another positive.

I think a lot of people nitpick on stuff and give help (all over the net) but have no idea what the hell theyre talking about and many times those asking for help will take this bad feedback and use it for their next work. im very traditional when it comes to photography. I believe that a great photog should get 80%+ of the desired image in the camera. its like a musician at a recording studio. if you suck , no amount of sound processing will help. so no amount of PP will help. and the PP shows. I can see it from a mile away.
 

Nero

Senior Member
if youre going to be a douche about it then thats wrong but you can say, its ok but not my taste. that would be fine. or even point out why you think its off. what you say will also tell me your expertise. the americans are known for this when they do job reviews for raises. they start with a positive comment, then a negative, then another positive.

I think a lot of people nitpick on stuff and give help (all over the net) but have no idea what the hell theyre talking about and many times those asking for help will take this bad feedback and use it for their next work. im very traditional when it comes to photography. I believe that a great photog should get 80%+ of the desired image in the camera. its like a musician at a recording studio. if you suck , no amount of sound processing will help. so no amount of PP will help. and the PP shows. I can see it from a mile away.
That's why I find myself using ViewNX 2 as my image editor after I take shots. It's much more simplistic and limited, which means I won't be tempted to rely on it to fix a bad image and I'll try to take a good one right away in-camera.
 

cwgrizz

Senior Member
Challenge Team
I appreciate the discussion. Personally, I want people to tell me what is wrong or right with something I post. I have never had any photography classes or training other than reading books, articles, etc. The only way I will improve is for someone to direct me with constructive criticism. I then have the ability to accept it or reject it. I am an old guy and realize that feedback can come from all degrees of expertise, so it is my responsibility to just weigh it out. Flame or compliment away. Ha!

I would love to post every picture I take on the Photo Critique section, but that would overload the system. Ha!
 

SkvLTD

Senior Member
Having a specific section for criticism is usually the better way to go.

Flaming starts from critiquees not knowing how to ask for a proper critique and then getting non-credible critics. Just asking "how is this photo" is not good enough IMO. You have to have an idea of what you're lacking or trying to fix when asking for help.
 
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