Tips need for Nikon D750 shoot in a low light condition with backlit

wordlesstu

Senior Member
Hi-

I went to a music concert at a bar this Sunday. I was trying to take the photos of the performance using my Nikon D750 with 24-120 mm f/4 lens.
I didn't bring flash light. The performers were sitting in front of the window where there are ambient lights coming from the window.The lighting inside the bar is extremely low. I set my camera in speed mode and set the ISO auto. I set the speed at 1/125 because it is a slow movement performance.The ISO went up to 12800 because the light is low. It turned out all my photos were underexposed with a lot of noise. Can anyone provide tips how to make a sharp image given the lighting condition and the lens/camera I have?



YT_20181111_0014.jpg
 
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Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
Hi-

I went to a music concert at a bar this Sunday. I was trying to take the photos of the performance using my Nikon D750 with 24-120 mm f/4 lens.
I didn't bring flash light. The performers were sitting in front of the window where there are ambient lights coming from the window.The lighting inside the bar is extremely low. I set my camera in speed mode and set the ISO auto. I set the speed at 1/125 because it is a slow movement performance.The ISO went up to 12800 because the light is low. It turned out all my photos were underexposed with a lot of noise. Can anyone provide tips how to make a sharp image given the lighting condition and the lens/camera I have?
I notice the EXIF shows an Exposure Compensation value of 2.33EV on that shot; was that adjustment intentional?

Also, what metering mode were you using?
 
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hark

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
Contributor
It looks as though the camera metered the light outside the window and compensated by underexposing. You can try changing the metering to either center-weighted or spot. Be sure the area you meter with is on your subject.

Or if you are shooting in the mode you used, you might be able to use the +/- button to increase your exposure. I don't use any type of auto or program mode to be sure about that though.

When editing, if you use Photoshop, in addition to using the luminance slider to reduce noise, also use the slider that controls color noise. That helps a great deal but is something not too many people utilize. I shoot at ISO 8000 (and sometimes ISO 10k) during Worship. You need to nail the exposure in camera. When you raise the shadows/exposure during post processing, that can add even more noise than you what you've got because of using a high ISO.
 

Chris@sabor

Senior Member
According to the data, ISO is 12800 and it appears to be roughly 2 stops or more under exposed. This means your ISO at that shutter speed would have had to be 51000 or more to properly expose the subjects. With lighting this poor, ISO that high with your shutter speed, you can't expect sharp photos and low noise, even the amazing D750 can't pull that off. Cameras have limits...
 

hark

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
Contributor
According to the data, ISO is 12800 and it appears to be roughly 2 stops or more under exposed. This means your ISO at that shutter speed would have had to be 51000 or more to properly expose the subjects. With lighting this poor, ISO that high with your shutter speed, you can't expect sharp photos and low noise, even the amazing D750 can't pull that off. Cameras have limits...

Chris gave important info. To compensate for those extra couple of stops, have you ever considered getting the Nikon 50mm f/1.8 AF-D? It runs @ $130 in the USA. It's probably one of the least expensive options for this type of situation. And since your body is the D750, the AF-D wouldn't be an issue. The lens lacks VR, but since your shutter speed is 1/125", that speed shouldn't be a problem for hand holding.

If you shoot RAW, you'd have a better results post processing than with jpegs. Which format did you use for shooting?
 

Chris@sabor

Senior Member
I could be wrong but I still say the issue is the 2.33 stops of Exposure Compensation that was dialed in for that shot.

The only thing is, if he dialed in + 2 stops and the shot is still under exposed, his metering was sooo far off no matter which meter mode he used. Something went wrong...
 

Blade Canyon

Senior Member
For low light situations, here's the best recipe I know:

1. Shoot RAW, which will give you the most latitude in post-processing.
2. Set camera to Manual, and ISO to Auto-ISO. (Technically you could just leave it set around 400 and do all of the exposure adjustment in post processing, a topic heavily debated here in the past.)
3. Set the shutter speed to the LOWEST possible speed you think you can get away with and still be sharp. Under the old rules, you made this shot at 38mm, so you could have gone as low as 1/50th second shutter speed, which would have given you more than twice as much light. (The old rule was shutter speed should be 1/focal length. With the newer sensors that show so much detail, some folks think you should use even faster shutter speeds.)
4. Set the aperture as wide as possible. F4 was as fast as your lens could go.
5. Use a tripod or the back of a chair or anything else you can rest the camera on to get more stability.

Post processing is key. In Adobe Camera Raw, you can adjust the exposure slider on the RAW file, which is essentially the same as telling the camera to bump the ISO while shooting. (A lot of folks don't agree with this.) Then learn how to use the noise reduction features in ACR.

As others have pointed out, your camera meter was taking into account the brighter light behind the performers. Using my method, you are pouring as much light as possible into the camera, so metering is not the key factor. Post processing to get the best possible image from that maxed light is the key factor.
 
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wordlesstu

Senior Member
Hi -
Thank you for your reply. I purposefully set the EV to +2.3 to compensate the low light condition. I used Matrix mode for this shot but sometimes I changed to Spot mode or center mode. I will uploaded more photos later. Thank you.
 

wordlesstu

Senior Member
Hi -

Thank you for your tips. I took most photos in matrix mode, but took some with spot or center mode. I did set EV to +2.3 but it doesn't help. Thank you so much for the retouching tips!

It looks as though the camera metered the light outside the window and compensated by underexposing. You can try changing the metering to either center-weighted or spot. Be sure the area you meter with is on your subject.

Or if you are shooting in the mode you used, you might be able to use the +/- button to increase your exposure. I don't use any type of auto or program mode to be sure about that though.

When editing, if you use Photoshop, in addition to using the luminance slider to reduce noise, also use the slider that controls color noise. That helps a great deal but is something not too many people utilize. I shoot at ISO 8000 (and sometimes ISO 10k) during Worship. You need to nail the exposure in camera. When you raise the shadows/exposure during post processing, that can add even more noise than you what you've got because of using a high ISO.
 

wordlesstu

Senior Member
Hi -

Thank you for your reply. I don't find the option to increase my ISO up to 128000. The highest it can go is 128000, than it goes to L1.

According to the data, ISO is 12800 and it appears to be roughly 2 stops or more under exposed. This means your ISO at that shutter speed would have had to be 51000 or more to properly expose the subjects. With lighting this poor, ISO that high with your shutter speed, you can't expect sharp photos and low noise, even the amazing D750 can't pull that off. Cameras have limits...
 

wordlesstu

Senior Member
Hi,

Thank you for your reply and tips. Re:
1. Yes, I shoot in Raw.
2. Yes, I set the Auto-ISO. I use Speed mode but I will try Manual mode next time.
3. I was not sure what is the LOWEST possible shutter speed so I set it to 1/125.
4. Yes, F4 was the lowest possible and which is the one I shoot with.
5. I didn't have a tripod but put it in the back of a chair is a good tips. Thanks!!

Thanks, I am starting to learn post processing so I will try to play with it.


For low light situations, here's the best recipe I know:

1. Shoot RAW, which will give you the most latitude in post-processing.
2. Set camera to Manual, and ISO to Auto-ISO. (Technically you could just leave it set around 400 and do all of the exposure adjustment in post processing, a topic heavily debated here in the past.)
3. Set the shutter speed to the LOWEST possible speed you think you can get away with and still be sharp. Under the old rules, you made this shot at 38mm, so you could have gone as low as 1/50th second shutter speed, which would have given you more than twice as much light. (The old rule was shutter speed should be 1/focal length. With the newer sensors that show so much detail, some folks think you should use even faster shutter speeds.)
4. Set the aperture as wide as possible. F4 was as fast as your lens could go.
5. Use a tripod or the back of a chair or anything else you can rest the camera on to get more stability.

Post processing is key. In Adobe Camera Raw, you can adjust the exposure slider on the RAW file, which is essentially the same as telling the camera to bump the ISO while shooting. (A lot of folks don't agree with this.) Then learn how to use the noise reduction features in ACR.

As others have pointed out, your camera meter was taking into account the brighter light behind the performers. Using my method, you are pouring as much light as possible into the camera, so metering is not the key factor. Post processing to get the best possible image from that maxed light is the key factor.
 

hark

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
Contributor
Hi,

Thank you for your reply and tips. Re:
1. Yes, I shoot in Raw.
2. Yes, I set the Auto-ISO. I use Speed mode but I will try Manual mode next time.
3. I was not sure what is the LOWEST possible shutter speed so I set it to 1/125.
4. Yes, F4 was the lowest possible and which is the one I shoot with.
5. I didn't have a tripod but put it in the back of a chair is a good tips. Thanks!!

Thanks, I am starting to learn post processing so I will try to play with it.

Ooo...any way you would upload a NEF to dropbox and post the link here? I'd love to play around with an image. ;)
 

Blade Canyon

Senior Member
The only thing is, if he dialed in + 2 stops and the shot is still under exposed, his metering was sooo far off no matter which meter mode he used. Something went wrong...

If the shutter speed was fixed at 1/125, and his lens was wide open at f4, then the only other thing the exposure compensation could have done was boost the ISO, which it did to the max for auto-ISO of 12,800 on the D750.
 

Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
What would you recommend otherwise? I was afraid it will be underexposed so I use 2.33 stops EV to compensate the light. Could you advise?
I couldn't tell from the EXIF if the EC that was dialed in was (+) or (-) and your shot appeared to me to be, roughly speaking, about two stops underexposed. It's not uncommon for someone to dial in EC without realizing it and the two-and-a-third stops increase struck me as a little odd. In short, I was hoping for an easy solution in that you had accidentally dialed in negative EC, but that was not the case. So much for my simple solution.
 
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hark

Administrator
Staff member
Super Mod
Contributor
I couldn't tell from the EXIF if the EC that was dialed in was (+) or (-) and your shot appeared to me to be, roughly speaking, about two stops underexposed. It's not uncommon for someone to dial in EC without realizing it and the two-and-a-third stops increase struck me as a little odd. In short, I was hoping for an easy solution in that you had accidentally dialed in negative EC, but that was not the case. So much for my simple solution.

Paul, I use the +/- button when needed in Aperture Priority. When I underexpose with it, the EXIF here shows up as -0.33EV (or whatever the value used). I don't know why the forum doesn't specifically display the + for overexposure, but it hasn't with my images. That was my thought, too, until I looked back through mine.
 

wordlesstu

Senior Member
Hi,

Thank you for your reply and tips. I am uploading more photos from the event which I can't upload with my apartment internet before. Sorry for the separate posts.

1. With the same setting but sse center weighted mode.
View attachment 299916

2. Use matrix mode but the light on the wall become overexposed.
View attachment 299917

3. Use matrix mode but underexposed.
View attachment 299918

4. This is by far the most successful.

YT_20181111_0107.jpg

5. This one I retouch to adjust exposure.

YT_20181111_0065.jpg
If you have more tips or suggestion , please let me know. Thank you so much !!! :cheerful:
 

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Horoscope Fish

Senior Member
Thank you for your reply and tips. I am uploading more photos from the event which I can't upload with my apartment internet before. Sorry for the separate posts.
If you have raw files those shots look pretty recoverable to me.

.....
If you have more tips or suggestion, please let me know. Thank you so much!!!
Shooting backlit scenes can be tricky, depending on what you want out of the final shot. If the dynamic range of the scene exceeds that of your camera, and using fill-flash is out of the question, then you are looking at having to make some (exposure) choices:

1. You could choose to keep the subject well exposed and let the back-lighting blow out. Spot-metering (on the subject) will keep the subject well exposed but will allow the back-lighting to blow out.

2. You could choose to try and keep the back-lighting well exposed while at the same time minimizing how under-exposed the subject is and then juggle/balance the overall lightness of the photo when you post-process.

3. You could choose to expose for the back-lighting, let the subject be underexposed greatly, and go for a creative silhouette effect in the final shot.
 
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