sad and frustated-mediocrity as a wedding photog is ok? a bit long.

I shot a wedding yesterday as a freelance for another photog. started doing the family formals, late of course because people have a hard time sticking to a schedule when they have two planners helping them as well.

anyways. I come to shoot the BG with 4 parents and got the memo late that the bride is hiding for her entrance only when the ceremony starts. family formals will be right after the ceremony.

so do other variations. this with that, that with this, these with them etc.

but I am not happy. I know the pictures are not complete and I have a lot of missing holes in the list in my head. I will have to setup my flashes/umbrellas again. it takes a few minutes but I need time to set it up. thats why there is a schedule. there are set times to do certain things. people need to stick by these. you have X amount of time for a wedding and youre supposed to shoot specific things in that time. when people dont stick by the schedule and are late you miss the time allocated for those specific shots and this becomes a snowball effect.

I shoot the ceremony, everyone comes and kisses/hugs the BG mazal tov and all that bS. I wait patiently. when most have gone to sit at the tables, I set up my flashes/stands umbrellas. family is there and the other photog(im working for) says "OK were ready to do the family formals" "no not now" was what the bride says and everyone agrees. the photog tries to convince her to do it now and not after dancing because they will be sweaty and no makeup and wont be at their best. no, not now. I told the photog im pissed and I will now have to setup my gear a 3rd time and im not happy at all. he says. ok, not much we can do.

first break kicks in, family pictures? no. table shots, no. and yes. basically follow them while they walk to the guests at the tables and shoot them as they are. ok, did that.

with two dummy planners working together there was more chaos then without them. I blame them and only them for not being stern enough with the couple and guiding them and sticking by the preset schedule.

end of the night comes and most have left. I see most of the family members not dancing and sitting at the tables. I said two parents and walked over and asked if the other two parents are still there. its happened that the parents leave early sometimes because the dancing at weddings does continue to 2am+ at times. they said yes. I asked how about family pictures...? they said yea why not. like theyre doing me a favor.

So I went to the bphotog and told him im trying to convince them to do the family formals and I told him if they agree, you will help with carrying the umbrellas. because I wanted to take them back to the spot that was nicer and not do it on the dance floor. he says "eh who cares. shoot it with your flash on camera and be done with it. and it fired me up even more. the family doesnt give a S*** and the photog himself doesnt give a S*** to fight to hae it done the best we can.

what pisses me off is that I get so flustered and pissed to fight for them to have great family formals (imo family formals, and ceremony are the most important) and they dont give a crap.so the other photog amongst many others ive worked with have a different attitude. theyre mindset is "if they dont want, who cares. you shouldnt care either" and thats the problem here. seems to be today that its ok to be mediocre. I notice it all the time people try strengthen one another with " its ok to be you. you dont have to be the best or stand out, be who you are, dont be the best" and me having high work ethics cant do the who gives a s*** attitude. im built inside to try and do the best I can. maybe not to be the best but to at least try to do the best I can under the circumstances. and these pros who are supposed to be elite have the who gives a crap attitude.

at the end, I simply bounced two flashes on light stand w/slaves off the ceiling down for a soft blanket of light and used my on camera Sb900 as well bounced up. I shot group shots and was done with it. I was so pissed at the end of the day. the videographer and photog both left before me because they didnt have off camera lights and other gear to put in their bags. I use a lot more gear then them. the other photog shot with 1 camera 16-35 2.8 and 70-200 2.8 the whole wedding. nothing else. I had a wedding when the family came really late. they had a lot of missing family pictures brothers, grandma/pa and others. the videographer says what do you care. you come to get your money and go home. let the photog deal with the headache. so I said to him "Unlike you, I have very high work ethics, youre mediocre is ok mindset is not the same as mine" I dont care abotu the photographers I work for or the couple themselves so much. much more so is the problem for me personally, inside, that I went home and did a kick A** job. im my worst critic. if im not happy, no one will make me happy.

I packed up and when walking out, the family said thank you for everything, goodbye and I nodded and walked out. I didnt say a word didnt shake anyones hand. I had a very sad mood I could not focus on driving at all. all day I think about it.

they invite quality photographers and dont trust them to do whats best for them, no planning, no organizing. they dont allow me to show my talent. I cannot be mediocre and with the eh, who gives a crap attitude and when someone doesnt allow me to work it really brings me down. I go home feeling with this restless feel of no content.

Great rant and well justified. I have very little to no experience when it comes to wedding. I wouldn't mind being a second shooter to get some mileage.

The couples should be thankful that the had someone like you with great work ethics.

It's definitely true that society today seems to be perfectly fine with mediocrity. It's all about getting as much money as possible with as little effort as possible. In everything, not just photography.

The wedding pictures are lasting longer than most marriages today. It's no wonder the folks involved don't care whether there's something to remember...

The only thing not mentioned here is how pissed off they will all be that the people they paid to capture their big moment didn't get all the photos that were expected, and how they should have insisted that the family and wedding party take the time to do them.

@rocketman122....I think the 1st photog should have taken control and told the family how it was going to be. He should have spoken loud and clear. If the family still didn't get the message, then I would have made them put it in writng that they (the family) opted out of their special shots. Don't take it personally, and now I know why I wouldn't want to be a professional wedding photographer.

Same here sonic don't want that head ache or
anything close to it.

That sucks Rocket...I am hard on my work as well..I strive to always deliver the best work capable..keep your head high knowing you stood by a great work ethic..Screw the other photogs..They wont last long with that attitude..

I see it from both sides.... having been in similar situations too - whilst I rarely - if ever compromise on my work and if the B&G want a shot, I would never do it half heartedly unless there was no alternative, but sometimes I have had to take a step back because a shot or collection of shots (ie family portraits) that I think are super super super super important aren't that high on the brides list - and that is cool. One must remember it is their wedding and they are the customer and if they don't place the same level of importance on a set of shots, that is completely ok - hard lesson for me to learn and sometimes I do still struggle with it.

I also have a clause in my contract that states:

COOPERATION: The parties agree to cheerful cooperation and communication for the best possible result within the definition of this assignment. THE PHOTOGRAPHER is not responsible if key individual’s failure to appear or cooperate during photography sessions or for missed images....

and

SHOOTING TIME / ADDITIONS: The photography schedule and selected methodology are designed to accomplish the goals and wishes of THE CLIENT in a manner enjoyed by all parties. THE CLIENT and THE PHOTOGRAPHER agree that cheerful cooperation and punctuality are therefore essential to that purpose. .

Chin up though - you at least did everything within your power to ensure they got their images, and you should be proud of that

I can understand the frustration in that you have to show your work at the end of the day, and with little cooperation it may become more difficult to produce the results that you desire. However here is my take on the situation.

The wedding couple have a right to enjoy their wedding and not be stuck following orders from a photographer. It is their own fault if they don't facilitate your work, they are aware that they will end up with less than desirable results if they don't agree to take pictures. I think you should take a look from both perspectives. It's their wedding, they hired you, they make the calls. If they don't want pictures taken that's their choice. As a photographer you should be respecting their decision whether they want to make the most of your service or enjoy their wedding in the moment rather than trying to create artefacts to remember it by. It's not a studio shoot, it's a wedding. The photographer should have as little interference with the proceedings and wishes of the host as possible in my opinion. I would be pretty annoyed if at my wedding, some photographer was hassling me to go and take photos while I was trying to enjoy my night and celebration with my family and friends.

Aboon, you are way off..I think you missed the point...Rocket seemed more frustrated about the other photogs not giving a shit about the wedding...

Really? I got the frustration with the other photographers, however the way I read it, it seems more focussed on the lack of cooperation by the hosts and subjects.

Ill let Rocket chime in...

Perhaps I've gotten it all wrong hey...

ABoon said:

Perhaps I've gotten it all wrong hey...

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I feel frustrated with a few different things.

-photog I work for himself has a who gives a crap attitude and I think you should always strive to be better. and many ive worked with say "eh what can you do, dont worry about it" "dont take it to heart" "why do you care" "eh, another wedding another buck" "its none of your business, youre just a freelance, dont get worked up" " im not getting pissed, so why are you?"

-I cant shut off my work ethic like a switch. I cant turn it off when in these situations then turn it on later on so I dont get stressed. it doesnt work that way. over the years when working with hard people I tried to switch my mind to the "eh who gives a crap" attitude but I cant shut it off. it fires me up even more. its like a clean freak and you come spill some cola on the floor next to them. and then tell them, dont wipe it, dont clean it. dont give a damn about it. leave it as it is. they will go crazy. its almost like a disease. you cant shut it off. so I cant not give a damn. its who I am. and not for the client but for me inside. only those who are like this will understand. others reading this will understand the other photogs who says "eh dont worry about it"

-self content. not being able to go home knowing I completed my job. using part of my talent. u get a feeling of self satisfaction when Im able to capture nice images. not for the clients or the other photog. I always try to hold myself to higher standard than what is asked of me. if you dont want good photos, then why hire me. enough of other lower level photogs you can hire.

-a lot of chaos there. the times schedule, these are things that are planned out beforehand byt the couple. they want to change then they can decide as they wish. but it also happens they complain after the fact when they come pick up the images. just recently, a bride who during the family formals said "ok two three more and thats enough" I had a lot of holes in my list of what I feel is content regarding the shoot list.

she came to pickup the pics from the photographer she hired and complained. we didnt do enough pics. and he told her that you told the photog 2-3 more and thats enough. the videographer also caught it on cam as he also does some shots of the family members when im shooting. and this is common. complaining when they dont cooperate. they come extremely late. expect me to work extremely quick. to the point a few times the groom and bride have said "ok hurry up" "lets finish already" "make it quick". I go berserk when someone says that to me. its the highest form of disrespect. I wont tell you what I say but I dont put up with it. im not a dog. so although I wasnt given enough time to shoot, they still have demands and complain after the fact. ironic.

-many times I have to do these shots on the list (btw, there is no list written down, its all in my head) in mixed order. most of the times many members are missing and I do part his side, then her side, then mix and go back and forth completing the list and checking them off in my head as I shoot.

-almost always its the bride that causes all the issues. almost always. they influence the groom and then he comes over like a weak messenger passing the news. the groom is always cool laid back and you can see he feels awkward when things dont go right, but the bride? what a fat foul mouth they have at times. there are many sweet brides out there, but as a pro you can also sense which couple will hold and which will be of that 50% divorce rate statistic.

-when I work for another photographer, Im basically showing up that day and only meeting the couple/family then. I dont have a rapport with them and there is a trust issue. if im competent enough and who am I. they know the photog they hired so when Im having issues getting them to cooperate, I turn to the photog to come and smooth things out.

-endless times I think and rethink to either sell my gear or move to either shooting food or architecture. a lot. ive been back for about a year now and my frustrations are getting more.

-I dont live in the US and this imo is the biggest issue for me. I grew up in the US. but the mentality/mindset of the people in my country makes it difficult for me to connect with them. I do not see eye to eye with them. I live in the middle east. very hard people to deal with.

sonicbuffalo said:

@rocketman122....I think the 1st photog should have taken control and told the family how it was going to be. He should have spoken loud and clear. If the family still didn't get the message, then I would have made them put it in writng that they (the family) opted out of their special shots. Don't take it personally, and now I know why I wouldn't want to be a professional wedding photographer.

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thats it. he should have stepped up and told them they will have missing images and the photog will not setup his umbrellas/lighting up again. this is the time for family formals. we allocated time for everything they need. if you dont want those pics now, I will shoot them later but with on camera flash and it will not look the same. their decision decides the quality.

donaldjledet said:

Same here sonic don't want that head ache or
anything close to it.

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yea a lot of headaches. but its mostly because of the country im in. they are very hard people to deal with. they want it all but arent willing to pay. they have this entitled attitude about them. also very rude. like barbarians with no class.

ShootRaw said:

That sucks Rocket...I am hard on my work as well..I strive to always deliver the best work capable..keep your head high knowing you stood by a great work ethic..Screw the other photogs..They wont last long with that attitude..

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thats the think SR. they are successful and im always in awe how that is possible. but I think a lot of that is he knows how to sell. he has a slick tongue and sometimes im shocked with clients he brings. I ask myself if they were drugged to sign the contract?

ABoon said:

I can understand the frustration in that you have to show your work at the end of the day, and with little cooperation it may become more difficult to produce the results that you desire. However here is my take on the situation.

The wedding couple have a right to enjoy their wedding and not be stuck following orders from a photographer. It is their own fault if they don't facilitate your work, they are aware that they will end up with less than desirable results if they don't agree to take pictures. I think you should take a look from both perspectives. It's their wedding, they hired you, they make the calls. If they don't want pictures taken that's their choice. As a photographer you should be respecting their decision whether they want to make the most of your service or enjoy their wedding in the moment rather than trying to create artefacts to remember it by. It's not a studio shoot, it's a wedding. The photographer should have as little interference with the proceedings and wishes of the host as possible in my opinion. I would be pretty annoyed if at my wedding, some photographer was hassling me to go and take photos while I was trying to enjoy my night and celebration with my family and friends.

Click to expand...

I will get back to your post. its going to be a bit long and I have tons of errands. you are right though. the couple can do what they want. but there are consequences to ever decision you make. just dont complain after and dont expect the photog to jump over backwards for you. and thats what they demand. and thats part of the issue I have.

If they have been refusing to let you shoot then they can't expect to get the photos. I can totally imagine the horrible people you would encounter in these situations and it must really suck. They only have themselves to blame though and I guess all you can do is make sure they are aware of this. It would likely be worse if you were demanding them to pose and cooperate with you at the wedding; causing a scene on their wedding day would be pretty bad. In these circumstances I would just let them know that the resulting photos would suffer. If they come knocking after they receive the photos, just say I told you so. At the same time, If they ask you not to shoot and they are happy to to have less photos then that should also be fine.

In today's scenario, the importance of still photos are diminishing. After all how many people take prints of their own holiday shots. Very few. It is internet, Facebook and other electronic formats. The video has assumed more importance as the client believes it covers the whole scenario moment by moment, and nothing is missed. So what if the formal stills are missing, you can always check it in the video.

I have attended quite a few weddings in my family. When I got married, nearly forty years ago, there was a comprehensive album. After all that was all that could relive the moment. Today, there are hardly any prints - only Facebook. At the most the family will condescend to watch the video. The couple may keep a few prints, that is it.

So in my opinion, if the client does not want to be bothered by formal photography, let it be so. Try to capture informal moments, rather than formal shots - that is the need of the day. In Delhi weddings, in many cases the event manager sets up a booth for formal photographs, equipped with lights, strobes a camera and a video. It is upto the event manager to take people to the booth for formal shots. As an incentive for the guests, a printer gives each one of them a hard copy.

Now, as soon as you said middle east it all made sense to me. Very last-minute, throw lots of money at a wedding kinda culture from the limited, but reliable scope that I know. So coming from, I'll assume the US wedding shooting school, I get exactly why all that is throwing you completely off.

And all that said, I can't help but agree with the main photogs on this one - if your own clients don't really fully care how the coverage will go, you should just learn to let it go and look at these kinda weddings as that 9-5 rather than your own masterfully executed day of art. It's YOUR work and art when your clients hire you to deliver just that to them, but when they just want someone with experience and gear to click the button from different angles to say they'll have the day documented for sometime never in the future, eh.

I'd honestly look for another branch of photography where YOU have all the creative control and your results reflect exactly how much dedication you put in while you still live there.

Having been to couple weddings now as a guest, read this thread and some others, I can honestly say that the most I'd be willing to do in the future if I graze this path of photography would be pre-wedding/couple/lifestyle gigs or tops just additional freelancer to the main team (just for cash rather than responsibility and having that weight on my shoulders/dealing with possibly snippy brides directly). I can see myself being more of a fish in the water shooting more contained subject matter with proper scheduling than lots of festive and uncontrollable crowds.

RocketMan, I just want to let you know that what you've described has happened many many times to other photographers.

In my previous life, when I was young, I shot over 500 weddings, all with medium format (Hasselblad, Pentax 6x7) and I can tell you that not all weddings were a picnic. Some went fine while others were just Pain in the A**. When you make a living with photography, you've got to go with the flow. No point in trying to swim against the current. It's life, what can I tell you. I've had ugly brides and grooms, this is what I found the most difficult, next to lousy weather. Weddings in the winter with snow or rain is not particularly easy to deal with.

So, you can only do your best with the circumstances, period. If this makes you unhappy, do as I did, find something else to put bread on the table and let photography become a hobby. But if you let time pass, you'll just forget about this unhappy experience and I hope you will have better settings and weddings to shoot that will let you be happy about your work.

All the best.