Are there any US Civil War buffs here on the board?
- Thread starter Dave_W
- Start date
I had 33 ancestors, that I know of (Grandparents, uncles, cousins etc) that were in the war. Many survived, some did not, including one who was never identified at Gettysburg. All were in the Union save one from Louisiana.
Living near Gettysburg (about 1 1/2 hours away) I have a lot of interest not only there but also the war in general. I spent one weekend many years back (as a leader with Boy Scouts) walking the entire Union fishhook and then over to the Confederate line and back across Pickets Charge (about 8 miles total). We were allowed to camp overnight on a part of Seminary Ridge. It is easy to get my fix every July as we have a PA Cable Network that covers just about everything that goes on there ,including all the two hour guided battle walks, and airs them many times for about two weeks.
When my son was in college a couple of years ago he took a B&W film photo class and came home so we could make a trip to Gettysburg. He wanted to do one of his assignments on the battlefield. Great place to do silhouette shots. You would enjoy it for sure.
Living near Gettysburg (about 1 1/2 hours away) I have a lot of interest not only there but also the war in general. I spent one weekend many years back (as a leader with Boy Scouts) walking the entire Union fishhook and then over to the Confederate line and back across Pickets Charge (about 8 miles total). We were allowed to camp overnight on a part of Seminary Ridge. It is easy to get my fix every July as we have a PA Cable Network that covers just about everything that goes on there ,including all the two hour guided battle walks, and airs them many times for about two weeks.
When my son was in college a couple of years ago he took a B&W film photo class and came home so we could make a trip to Gettysburg. He wanted to do one of his assignments on the battlefield. Great place to do silhouette shots. You would enjoy it for sure.
Man, I envy you, Alan. I feel a little like a surfer living in Ohio. I've been doing a lot of reading on the subject lately. Some very interesting aspects of the events that just raise more questions for me. One thing I've noticed a distinct similarity of the barnburners and their steadfast position to the modern day tea party...but I'll leave that observation for another time.
One of the questions I have is what happened to slavery in the non-succession states like Kansas and Maryland, etc? How did the end of slavery occur for those people? Were they offered the government buy-out option that was floated around just before the war? And the whole idea of owning another human being is a tough thing to wrap your mind around. And why blacks in particular? There were plenty of native Americans around at the time, why not make them slaves? And why not Chinese or Arabic peoples instead of blacks? While slavery has been a constant since the dawn of human civilization, I don't think it was based solely on race like it was in the antebellum south. So it makes me wonder where the idea of using blacks vs. other races as slaves began. Had Darwin presented his Origin of Species in the 17th century it might all make sense but his theory would not be around for another 200 yrs or so.
And it seems to me that had the Union had competent generals in the early days of the war, the war itself might have never have ended slavery. For instance, had the Union used its superior numbers and weaponry early on, the confederation would mostly likely have quickly fallen apart and returned to the US at the time in which there were many voices willing to accept slavery in the states with slaves. The abolitionists were a radical minority when the war began and the emancipation proclamation was more designed to keep England and France from recognizing the CSA more than a true effort to free the slaves. For the majority of Northerners, this war was more about preserving the Union and not letting slavery into the new territories than it ever was about slavery itself.
All in all, it's a bit of a mind-warp to think this all happened right here in the US not really that long ago. A mere 3 to 4 grandparents ago (maybe more for the younger ones in the crowd) and you would be hard pressed to say we're really different people now than we were back then.
One of the questions I have is what happened to slavery in the non-succession states like Kansas and Maryland, etc? How did the end of slavery occur for those people? Were they offered the government buy-out option that was floated around just before the war? And the whole idea of owning another human being is a tough thing to wrap your mind around. And why blacks in particular? There were plenty of native Americans around at the time, why not make them slaves? And why not Chinese or Arabic peoples instead of blacks? While slavery has been a constant since the dawn of human civilization, I don't think it was based solely on race like it was in the antebellum south. So it makes me wonder where the idea of using blacks vs. other races as slaves began. Had Darwin presented his Origin of Species in the 17th century it might all make sense but his theory would not be around for another 200 yrs or so.
And it seems to me that had the Union had competent generals in the early days of the war, the war itself might have never have ended slavery. For instance, had the Union used its superior numbers and weaponry early on, the confederation would mostly likely have quickly fallen apart and returned to the US at the time in which there were many voices willing to accept slavery in the states with slaves. The abolitionists were a radical minority when the war began and the emancipation proclamation was more designed to keep England and France from recognizing the CSA more than a true effort to free the slaves. For the majority of Northerners, this war was more about preserving the Union and not letting slavery into the new territories than it ever was about slavery itself.
All in all, it's a bit of a mind-warp to think this all happened right here in the US not really that long ago. A mere 3 to 4 grandparents ago (maybe more for the younger ones in the crowd) and you would be hard pressed to say we're really different people now than we were back then.
Don Kuykendall_RIP
RIP :(
I think we are very different now. The reason for Blacks being the slaves was where they were available. Most of the black were bought from other Africans that had captured them in battle or kidnapped them as slaves from other tribes.
And it was not the Civil War. It was the war of northern aggression.
And it was not the Civil War. It was the war of northern aggression.
Right, but the native Indians were so much closer, why go all the way to Africa? I guess that's the part I don't understand
Don Kuykendall_RIP
RIP :(
We did not go to Africa to bring them here. They were brought over by the Slave Traders
Atlantic slave trade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Atlantic slave trade or transatlantic slave trade took place across the Atlantic Ocean from the 16th through to the 19th centuries. The vast majority of slaves transported to the New World were Africans from the central and western parts of the continent, sold by Africans to European slave traders who then transported them to North and South America. The numbers were so great that Africans who came by way of the slave trade became the most numerous Old-World immigrants in both North and South America before the late eighteenth century. The South Atlantic economic system centered on making goods and clothing to sell in Europe and increasing the numbers of African slaves brought to the New World. This was crucial to those European countries which, in the late seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, were vying with each other to create overseas empires.
We have a fort here in Pensacola, FT Pickens, which was an active Confederate/US Army fort from 1834 and remained in service until 1947. It has a very rich history for the South in that war of northern aggression! I grew up in Raleigh, NC and a very intense battle was fought on what is now the Raleigh Fairgrounds. It is a metal detector's dream!
Don Kuykendall_RIP
RIP :(
Don, I understand how they got here, that's not really the question. I want to know why blacks and not Chinese or Arabs or better yet Indians? With Indians you wouldn't have nearly as many issues with getting them to the new world and all the numbers who died along the way. And for edification purposes, we Americans did bring a lot of the blacks here to the US. Even after it was outlawed there were many American based slave runners, especially after the invention of the cotton gin when the price of a slave increased over 1000%. In fact, the CSA only kept the law prohibiting slave running solely to placate the border states since these states were the main supplier of slaves to the lower southern states.
Dave, Always more questions than answers. If I remember most of the border states not effected by the EP outlawed slavery before the war ended. There are so many what if's in this war. I have a book about what if Stonewall Jackson had not been killed and had been at Gettysburg instead of JEB Steward. That makes an interesting read. Again with Gettysburg, what if Meade had pressed a pursuit of Lee on July 4th. Lee was stretched out for 20+ miles on muddy roads and might have been destroyed in detail. In all my reading I don't believe Meade ever wanted to fight there in the first place. For him he was just glad he had survived the battle, no reason to press his luck.
Another note on slavery I have a Dutch ancestor who owned slaves in Albany NY in the mid 1600's. In his will he commanded one of his sons to free and care for a slave woman until her death and to care for and free her child. Read into that what you will.
As for not that long ago, although my Great Grandfather died before I was born my father knew his Grandfather who fought in the 141th PVI. It always brought it closer for me because he and my Uncle and Aunt could relay stories to me. He had a brother in the same company that was wounded at Chancellorsville. I have to believe that they were together when that happened.
John Wells 141 PVI in later years. I have that watch fob he is wearing and his bible (from the war) and bayonet.
Another note on slavery I have a Dutch ancestor who owned slaves in Albany NY in the mid 1600's. In his will he commanded one of his sons to free and care for a slave woman until her death and to care for and free her child. Read into that what you will.
As for not that long ago, although my Great Grandfather died before I was born my father knew his Grandfather who fought in the 141th PVI. It always brought it closer for me because he and my Uncle and Aunt could relay stories to me. He had a brother in the same company that was wounded at Chancellorsville. I have to believe that they were together when that happened.
John Wells 141 PVI in later years. I have that watch fob he is wearing and his bible (from the war) and bayonet.
I grew up in the greater suburbs of Philadelphia and remember a local elementary school class trip where we visited a house used as an underground railroad. The basement was dark, damp, and small, and I couldn't imagine living in such an environment although that basement may have been better than their regular accommodations. For the life of me, I've never been able to remember where that house is located--I even asked some classmates about it within the past year. Unfortunately when my class went on a field trip to Gettysburg, I was sick and couldn't go so I've never been there. Lots of US history around this area including Washington's Crossing and Pennsbury Manor (William Penn's home) not to mention all the history in Philly.
Phillydog1958
Senior Member
I understand your question, Dave_W. It's a fair question, too. There were treaties in place that had been arranged for along time. It goes back to Plymouth Rock and the 1600's. The guilt that was associated with taking land from Native Americans was heavy. The government had agreed to these treaties. It would've looked bad, if they decided to blatantly renege on those agreements. Not to mention the hypocrisy that would be recognized by the general public. There were some who sympathized with the Natives. Keep in mind that those early settlers were highly religious and thought that they were being led to the New World by divine intervention. So, there was a desire to do the right thing. As time went on, and generations passed, those old agreements vanished. We all know what Andrew Jackson did to Natives through the Trail of Tears and his Indian Removal program. Dave, it was easier to spiritually justify the African Slave trade. Just compare them to apes and consider them to not be human. Plus, the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade dates back to the 15th century. Europeans had been trading slaves for centuries. The distribution systems were already in place. In North America, the slave trade took hold in the late 1700's. Even after the Declaration of Independence was signed, it didn't apply to African and African Americans. They were considered to be property and not human. The slave trade was race based.
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Phillydog1958
Senior Member
The Civil War was about secession from the Union, which was driven by the fact that the South's entire economic system was based on free, human labor. The Southern aristocracy was not willing to bankrupt itself by abolishing slavery. In essence, the Civil War was about slavery.
No, this was in Yardley so I searched a little online and came up with this article. It mentions a high school classmate, Millard Mitchell, who is knowledgeable about the Underground Railroad. I wish I could locate him--he mentions there being @10 places in Yardley that were used for the Underground Railroad.
Tunnel may be link to Underground Railroad - phillyburbs.com: The Intelligencer
I also found this article which mentions there being several places in Yardley that were used as the Underground Railroad. The article also mentions the Yardley Grist Mill which supplied milled items which helped feed the soldiers during the Civil War. Here's a recent photo of the mill which is now converted to commercial space:
They were all shut down because of the government shutdown. Idiots behaving like little children