DSLR Sales On The Decline . . . Nikon and Canon Lower Sales Projections

Phillydog1958

Senior Member
Phones Imperil Fancy CamerasShipments of High-End Models Are Falling as Mobile Devices Gain in Popularity
(Taken from the Wall Street Journal Website's Technology Page)


By JURO OSAWA CONNECT
Updated Nov. 7, 2013 7:41 p.m. ET

Declining sales of high-end cameras and lenses are raising an alarming question for companies like Canon Inc. 7751.TO -0.32% and Nikon Corp. 7731.TO -3.63% : Could the proliferation of camera-enabled, app-heavy smartphones be crushing not only the simple point-and-shoot, but premium models as well?


This year, shipments of what's called "interchangeable-lens cameras"—high-end models that let users swap out different lenses—are diving suddenly after years of robust growth. Most of those are digital single-lens reflex, or DSLR, cameras—the bulky models used by professional photographers and enthusiasts.


Research firm IDC expects shipments of such cameras to fall 9.1% to 17.4 million units from 19.1 million units last year.


Canon recently cut its full-year sales forecast for interchangeable-lens cameras.


During the past few weeks, Canon and Nikon—two of the world's biggest makers of high-end cameras—both lowered their forecasts for sales in the fiscal year ending in March. Major lens maker Tamron Co. 7740.TO -1.18% , seen as a bellwether for the market, sold 22% fewer interchangeable lenses in the first nine months of this year than it did a year earlier, forcing it to lower its profit outlook last week.


Just what's behind the decline is unclear. Canon, Nikon and Tamron point to a weak global economy and inventory buildups.


"We are seeing tough figures at the moment, but I don't think this will last forever,'' said Nikon Chief Financial Officer Junichi Itoh, at an earnings news conference on Thursday. "There still is potential demand, and I think China is the key."


But the example of Lie Fhung suggests consumer tastes could be changing too. The Hong Kong-based artist and graphic designer says she now rarely uses the Canon DSLR camera that she bought five years ago. Instead, Ms. Fhung, 44, takes most of her photos with her iPhone, and satisfies her urge to manipulate the images with a bevy of photo-editing apps.


When the editing process is complete, she posts her snapshots straight from her phone to photo-sharing app Instagram, where she has nearly 1,600 followers. Ms. Fhung says she has no plans to replace her aging Canon.


"I like using different apps to play with the texture of photos," she says. "It's my hobby."


This wasn't supposed to happen. Camera makers have argued that although smartphones and mobile devices have decimated sales of cheap, compact cameras, premium products shouldn't be affected, since they offer a level of control and picture quality that a smartphone's tiny lens and sensor can't replicate.


"Taking photos with smartphones and editing them with apps is like cooking with cheap ingredients and a lot of artificial flavoring," says Canon spokesman Takafumi Hongo. "Using interchangeable cameras is like slow food cooked with natural, genuine ingredients.''


But other market watchers say there are signs the popularity of mobile devices could be eroding sales in the cheaper, "entry" part of the high-end lineup.


Christopher Chute, a digital-imaging research director at IDC, says he's finding that some consumers are choosing to spend money on smartphones and tablets rather than good-quality stand-alone cameras.


Died-in-the-wool camera buffs may continue to replace their gear, but the potential loss of some newcomers would be a serious issue for the industry, he says.


As more consumers evaluate gadgets based on software and how well it connects to the Internet rather than hardware, the benefits of high-end cameras may become less obvious, he says. "Using software, you can literally create effects of different kinds of cameras," Mr. Chute says.


Even lens maker Tamron has acknowledged a potential problem, although it doesn't blame that for the recent decline in sales. "Smartphones pose a threat not just to compact cameras but entry-level DSLRs as well," general manager Tsugio Tsuchiya said in a phone interview.


Are Camera Apps Enough for Photo Enthusiasts?
Some analysts say the impact on high-end cameras from smartphones and apps is exaggerated. "Whenever the market declines, people tend to try to come up with structural reasons," says J.P. Morgan JPM +4.47% analyst Hisashi Moriyama.


Camera makers have argued that people who get hooked on photography through smartphones and apps could later move on to purchase better cameras, as they become more serious hobbyists.


Still, the pessimistic view that smartphones are hurting even interchangeable-lens cameras won't go away unless sales start picking up firmly again, says UBS Securities analyst Ryosuke Katsura.


Shares of Canon, which two weeks ago said it expected to sell 8 million interchangeable-lens cameras this year, instead of the 9 million it forecast in July, have declined 7.3% since January, even as Japan's benchmark Nikkei 225 stock index gained 37%. Nikon's shares have fallen 29% this year.


In August, Mr. Katsura lowered his digital-camera market forecasts for this year and the next. Mr. Katsura doesn't think smartphones will kill stand-alone cameras, but he isn't completely ruling out the possibility.


"The industry is at a turning point right now, so no scenario is impossible,'' he says.


—Hiroyuki Kachi and Kosaku Narioka in Tokyo contributed to this article.
 

Bob Blaylock

Senior Member
Having long ago been very much into photography, the thing that rekindled my long-latent passion for it was getting a smartphone, and seeing what I could do with it, by way of taking pictures, and editing them with the various apps I could easily and cheaply download and run right on this same phone.

But I found the overall quality of the images lacking, compared to what I used to take with my ancient F2.

So, I got me a modern DSLR,and now I can take pictures that are as good as my F2 took, while enjoying much of the advantages of doing so digitally. I can even use the old lenses I have for my F2 (though the manual for my D3200 claims that I cannot). But with my D3200, I miss some of the flexibility that I have with my smartphone. I'm pretty much limited to what in-camera editing is stock with the D3200, before I transfer the pictures to my computer and use Photoshop and other software to further process them. With the WU-1a, I can transfer images from my D3200 to my smartphone, and use the software I have there which, for the most part, is both superior and more affordable than what is I have for my computers; but my smartphone, alas, is rather too anemic in term of memory and processing power to really work very usefully with full-sized 24-megapixels images from my DSLR.

I think that what the industry really needs to do is to come out with lines of DSLRs that run Android, and can download and run all the various image-processing apps that are available for this platform. They need to have plenty of memory, and a really good CPU, to be able to work well with images that are much, much bigger than a smartphone produces.

The quality of a good DSLR, versus the ease and flexibility of an Android smartphone—it seems that consumers, in droves, are choosing the latter. I don't see any good reason why an Android-based DSLR can't be made, that will give us the best advantages of both.

I can somewhat relate to what Mr. Hongo said…

"Taking photos with smartphones and editing them with apps is like cooking with cheap ingredients and a lot of artificial flavoring," says Canon spokesman Takafumi Hongo. "Using interchangeable cameras is like slow food cooked with natural, genuine ingredients.''

…but sometimes I like what I can do with “a lot of artificial flavoring” that I cannot do any other way.
 

mikew_RIP

Senior Member
I think its not a case of will the dslr decline until production is not viable but when will it happen,just about every thing changes and not always for the better.
 

Rick M

Senior Member
This could reverse the trend of high end DSLR's coming down in price. At first they may, but years down the road they may become more expensive as the economies of scale diminish.
 

Sevenup

Senior Member
I think that what the industry really needs to do is to come out with lines of DSLRs that run Android, and can download and run all the various image-processing apps that are available for this platform. They need to have plenty of memory, and a really good CPU, to be able to work well with images that are much, much bigger than a smartphone produces.

Yea, I would love this!
 

nmccamy

Senior Member
My take on this is that the younger generation, in general, is not as excited about photo quality as my generation. I see this and hear it all the time. Only artsy fartsy people spend thousands on a camera, my cellphone camera is better! I can't tell you how many times I've had cellphone users argue with me that their cellphone photo quality is even BETTER than ANY professional DSLR. Amazing marketing!

What I've seen with Japanese cars is now happening with cameras. Prices are going up and some of the quality is going down. My 1982 Honda Civic Hatchback's interior quality was far better than what I see now. Thankfully the major guts of the Japanese car and camera are improving over the years.
 

Marcel

Happily retired
Staff member
Super Mod
I'm just waking up so I'll exercice my brain by trying to put into words my thoughts about this.

I think some of these major companies are not always thinking about their customers and their needs. It seems to me that we might have seen the last segment of the megapixel race with the D800E. It's a great camera for professionals and studio shoots, but, put it in an amateur hands, the results might be worse than if he had a D90. I've experienced this factor when I switched from D90 to D7000 and for a short while, I wasn't getting better results because I wasn't stabilizing my camera well enough, and I also got aware that the mirror mouvement alone could change the sharpness of my shots. -1 for more megapixels.

Second factor is the lens quality. More MPs mean that you absolutely need better lenses otherwise your images look muddy at times. This is not great for amateurs who can simply not amortize and deduct expensive lenses from their earnings.

So I think there is a line where more MPs is not giving back your money's worth, but it seems Nikon and Canon are still trying to put more into their newer models. The exception seems to be the newer Nikon DF that is coming back to fill in the gap, and, although it's expensive, it still might be my future camera for my practical purpose.

Medium format digital cameras will always be sharper than 35mm sensors. 35mm sensors will mostly always outperform APCs sensors. But for someone that just wants to have a camera that produces good images in normal situations and is not going to print wall sized prints, there are a lot of choices in the market.

I thinks that's it, I'm awake now and have run out of words to type,

​You all have a great day.
 

ShootRaw

Senior Member
Decline in sales boils down to this mess of economy that we have..much deeper then camera phones..lol As technology improves so do camera phones..But I am not worried about them being better then our DSLR's at all..
 

jrleo33

Senior Member
Sony’s technological advancements with DSLR and SLT cameras have applied terrific
sales pressure to both Nikon and Canon products; which I believe will continue
contributing to lagging sales by the big two. Sony is committed to taking
whatever share of this consumer’s market it can.
 

john*thomas

Senior Member
As much as anything I purchased my DSLR to get the same feel as I had back when I used my old Olympus OM-10 for years. Buying my D5100 For $400 refurbished. and getting a used 55-200 for another $100 was a pretty good deal considering that I believe I paid around $300 for the same set up when I purchased the Olympus in 1980.

Will I replace my D5100 with a new offering that costs $2-$2500? No way.

IMO those like myself do not require the latest and greatest technology every few months or every year. That's what those who buy the newest smartphone every year are after. That is where their money is going to go. Not mine.
 

Sandpatch

Senior Member
I think the other thing that has changed in photography goes beyond the DSLR vs Cameraphone debate. In this era, many Cameraphone users don't save their pictures. Picture taking has become a momentary, throw-away event -- take a mediocre shot, post it seconds later, receive a few responses and then forget about it. Many members of the Cameraphone crowd are a lost market for DSLR manufacturers -- owners don't care much about quality and don't even care to save the snapshots they've taken for future generations. I'm not sure if any marketing plan can reverse this trend; we seem to live in a society that values only today.
 

Bob Blaylock

Senior Member
I think its not a case of will the dslr decline until production is not viable but when will it happen, just about every thing changes and not always for the better.

I think there will always be a place for better cameras than can be built into cell phones. Certainly, professional photographers will always want such, as will serious amateurs. On the down side, I have to admit that I don't really need a 24-megapixel DSLR to take picture that I am mostly going to post to Facebook, StreamZoo, or online forums such as this; that limit me to resolutions that are well within my cell phone's capability.

I also have to admit that I can see an end coming to the true DSLR. The SLR configuration is all about the viewfinder. Eventually, I think the point will be reached where an EVIL/MILC configuration can offer a viewfinder that is as good as or better than a true DSLR, at a lower cost, with less mechanical complexity, and greater reliability; at which point there will really be little point to the continuing manufacture of true DSLRs. There's no reason why an EVIL/MILC can't be better than a DSLR—they just don't seem to be there yet. But that's a different discussion. This discussion is really about the future viability of the market for high-quality digital cameras of the level that, so far only exist in the DSLR form.
 

Bob Blaylock

Senior Member
Decline in sales boils down to this mess of economy that we have..much deeper then camera phones..lol As technology improves so do camera phones..But I am not worried about them being better then our DSLR's at all..

There may be a time in the future when the camera phones of that time are better than the DSLRs of today—in fact, surely the 5-megapixel camera in my current cellphone is better than the very earliest of DSLRs—but I do not think it will ever be possible to make a camera that fits in a cell phone that will be as good as the cameras full-sized cameras of that same time.

I think it will always be possible to get better resolution, and better overall quality, with a larger sensor than with a smaller sensor of the same technological level. A larger sensor will always require larger lenses, and a larger device to contain it and on which to mount those lenses.

I have to wonder about that new cellphone that claims to have a 40-megapixel camera built into it. I just have to think that's an advertising gimmick, that the phone cannot possibly have the optics or the processing power to make worthwhile use of a sensor with that much resolution. I'm sure we will not see truly useful 40-megapixel cellphone cameras before it becomes common for DSLRs or EVIL/MILCS to be well over a few hundred megapixels.
 

Bob Blaylock

Senior Member
I think the other thing that has changed in photography goes beyond the DSLR vs Cameraphone debate. In this era, many Cameraphone users don't save their pictures. Picture taking has become a momentary, throw-away event -- take a mediocre shot, post it seconds later, receive a few responses and then forget about it. Many members of the Cameraphone crowd are a lost market for DSLR manufacturers -- owners don't care much about quality and don't even care to save the snapshots they've taken for future generations. I'm not sure if any marketing plan can reverse this trend; we seem to live in a society that values only today.

That's really a trait of digital photography compared to film.

It no longer costs anything to take a picture. You don't have to buy film, and you don't have to pay to get it developed/printed, or for chemicals and equipment to develop it yourself.

It used to be necessary to be frugal with one's picture-taking. 36 shots, and then you had to put in another roll of film. You had to get the film developed before you could see the results.

With a digital camera, you can shoot hundreds of pictures, pick out a few that are worth keeping,and throw the rest away. I find I do this much more with my DSLR than with my cellphone camera or any of my lesser digital cameras. I've shot thousands of pictures with my D3200, in the roughly two and a half months I've owned it, but I haven't kept much more than a hundred or so of them. A lot of times, I take several pictures, perhaps as dozen or two, pick out one or two to post to StreamZoo or FaceBook, and then afterward delete all my local copies. Better ones, I post to Flickr where the full resolution is preserved.

With my lesser digital cameras, I was much more inclined to keep every picture I took, but my D3200 takes such huge pictures, that I'd quickly run out of room to store them all if I insisted on keeping them.
 

john*thomas

Senior Member
It won't be long before we have hologram camera's. Take a pic, load it to the viewer and you will have a 3-D representation on your end table of the photo you took.
 

Rick M

Senior Member
At the last two shows I did, people were amazed at how clear and sharp the prints are. I think the public has been dumbed down in a quality expectation sense. They are so used to crappy snapshots on facebook that they are surprised to see an 11x14 of significantly better quality. This will help my sales down the road as low quality becomes the normal expectation of the general public. I'm hoping market saturation/choice is the culprit in the sales decline.
 

Bill16

Senior Member
Until someone improves the vr issue a ton, I think the high mp possibilities are going to be limited. The slightest movement can easily ruin a shot, and the higher the megapixel count the worse it gets.
So I don't see cellphone cameras replacing or even challenging DSLR cameras for some time to come, if ever.
So I'm not going to go selling my gear just yet! Lol :D

As for this throwaway generational issue, I'm not sure how far it will go. Disposable DSLRs maybe, for cheap price and short life expectancy? No I think there will always be expensive quality products made to last, for those who are willing to pay for it. They maybe harder to afford, and less of a market for them at times. But a demand for them will see to it they are continued to be made.

That's just my opinion. Lol :D
 

nmccamy

Senior Member
There are still plenty of people using ancient large format cameras and film. Who knows when that will become totally extinct.
 

Camera Fun

Senior Member
I got a D7000 last year because I wanted to get back into photography as a hobby and be able to do different things; also wanted to get a dslr before the mp wars got completely out of control. I will use the camera on my cell phone but only for something of quick interest; and usually I'm just sending the picture to someone for fun. To me, the phone pictures are a get-it-now situation from a camera that fits in a pocket or purse and doesn't require learning about ISO, aperture, shutter speed, etc. or going through menus. For some people the phone camera is what they want to use and that's fine. For me personally, I'll take a larger camera with fewer megapixels and offers more opportunities to do different things.
 
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